mk2rstaff

has anyone used them and if so are they a good thing or bad, i seen one for sale saying they better than 3 layer wrc items and are reusable, is coppr that strong???????

tabetha

Yes copper is that strong.
Never used on cars but on bikes, like Yam lc 350, very tuned, used at least ten times on/off, no a problem.
Bike was very tuned, putting out around 78bhp.
tabetha

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

make sure you coat the gasket with sealer seen a few leak but that was on big big power cars so coated them with head jointing compound and perfect since

THEYGOTMETOO

Copper tensile strength = Approximately 32,000 PSI,
Traditional head gasket tensile strength = Approximately 1,800PSI.

Personally I think the MLS WRC gaskets are way overpriced for what they are, God knows why everyone seems to think they are the be all and end all

They are also truly re-usable ... at least the only gasket I would re-use, although I would only re-use a maximum of 3 times as each time they are re-used their oxygen content will decrease to a point where they will become brittle.

Only downside I can possibly think of with Copper gaskets is that if something does go wrong they will not fail ... that is to say something else (and more expensive to replace) will give out in the engine before the gasket will.

Rick

they used these in Mini's 30 years back, i have one hanging in the garage. Why haven't they caught on? Copper is a cheap material, and they construction process isn't anything exotic?

NUTS RuS

iTrader: (35)

THEYGOTMETOO

Sent you about 3 questions via Ebay and never got a single reply so I never bothered buying any

tabetha

They do go hard, but you can simply RE-ANNEAL them by heating to cherry red and dropping in old engine oil, as this will have lots of carbon in it, never seen a failure yet with one.
STUD NICLAUS used to use them as well on his sprint mini, a series bored and stroked to the max 1600CC, he ran 43psi boost without problem.
tabetha

saph4be

can you use this with a wire rung block?

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

I Rang Ferriday Engineering about this a few days ago. He told me that:

1) Don't bother unless you are running over 500BHP
2) The head and block have to be machined PERFECTLY flat, and the block has to be wire rung to make a decent seal.
3) Only worth doing if you keep suffering headgasket failures

Pretty honest info from someone who sells them.........

tabetha

MINI was wire rung, but yam was not ?
tabetha

Ginge !

hey ive just spent a fucking LONG time learning about head gaskets IN DEPTH from FAI on wednesday

copper headgaskets are the BEST to use,,,, well depending on who done them obviously

the 2 main jobs of a head gasket is thermal efficentcey and air tight seal

the who was training me was the people who FINALLY solved the issues with the rover K series engines

copper headgaskets are NOT reusable AT ALL,,, NONE OF THEM ARE AS THEY ALL CRUSH ROUND WHERE THE FIRE RING WOULD BE !!!!

the K series was the FIRST MLR head gasket and the ONLY reason why it is popular is cause the normal fibre ones where made with asbestos,,,, thats now NOT allowed so the mlr is the best choice,,, copper is ALOT MORE than thin sheet steel due to the amount wasted

i can go on for HOURS with what i learned,, but in a nut shell a gasket costs after tooling 10 quid,,, so a 300 quid MLR is a fucking rip off,,, but sold cause people WILL buy them

gaskets are sold based on the price of the cars on the market,,, a cheep car they cant sell a gasket for 90 quid due to the throw away factor same with the cossies,,, so when people pay it they sell them

who ever made the gasket i would like to know where they LEARNED about them,,,, cause theres only 3 good gasket companys left in the WORLD today and NONE OF THEM ARE PAYEN !!!!

anything you wanna know either i will answer or i can get the technical director of a company i use to answer it for you,,,, one of the people who not only helped design the new landrover headgasket which fits ALL k-seires engines he also helped solve the problem with the vauxhall izuzu 1.7 diesel engines that failed at the start of production all them years ago,,, a man who has been designing and working with gaskets ONLY for 25 years

to say hes good at it is a understatement,,,,, and he STILL gets into them,, he actually LOVES gaskets and looking at them,,, its hes HOBBY aswell as hes 65k plus expenses a year job

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

payen is a very good make i have tested them

THEYGOTMETOO

You have PM


Only difficult thing about Copper is that it is awful to machine ... has a machinability rating of something like 20 compared 100 for something like Aluminium. Abrasive Waterjet is the best way to machine them, although if you know what you're doing a machining centre will do just fine.


You can actually re-anneal them just by leaving them to air cool, quenching doesn't really make any difference to the annealing process when dealing with Copper. The thing is every time you re-anneal them you will decrease the oxygen content of the Copper and in doing so when the oxygen content reaches a certain level the gasket will become brittle and unusable. I've only seen one failure on a Copper head gasket and that was from a big block V8 that was used in a drag car.


I know you're only quoting what someone else has told you but what an absolute load of bollocks! Copper gaskets are actually more tolarent to uneven block / head faces than MLS gaskets. And as for wire ringing being a requirement!! A vast majority of the gaskets I have sold (literally thousands) are on non-wire rung blocks and do not leak combustion gas.


Copper gaskets ARE re-usable ... its a totally indisputable fact accepted by pretty much everyone who makes them and has ever used them. The only time they will deform around the bores is if you have vastly inconsistent clamping pressure between block and head, that should only occur if you have very uneven surfaces. A copper gasket will not compress (well not to the extent a composite or MLS gasket will), its starting thickness will be its final compressed thickness. As mentioned above; the reason a Copper gasket can be re-used is because they can be annealed ... which is basically making the metal soft again.


Copper gaskets are wonderful, they have so many advantages over other gaskets; strength, high thermal conductivity - helping to equalise block and head temperatures, a reasonably high modulus of elasticity, cost (compared with other gaskets), etc. etc. The only downsides are 1) 99.9% of the time they will not fail meaning something else will be forced to let go, 2) The installation process is more involved, messy and time consuming compared with just plonking a fibre-composite gasket on

If my Cossie HG ever lets go I know what will be replacing it .... and thats on an engine which is practically standard.

wul young

does anyone know if copper headgasket is available for 1996 2.0 zetec e,its for zvh lump.done many of these conversions now and had few gasket failures over the years,especially on high boost lumps.
many thanks.

Ginge !

the reason copper gaskets never took of was cause the other type was a asbestos powder gasket,,,, a VERY good material and very very cheep to make too

say what you like about reusing gaskets,,, a bloke who has been designing and making gaskets for 25 years said he would never reuse one,, hes reason was the crush around the fire ring to seal it,,, if a copper gasket is soft then it would crush too,,, or leak,,, its simple to understand

if it wasnt for asbestos then we would all be using copper gaskets

and NO they DONT need to be wire rung,,, thats just bollox to sell you crap you dont need,,,, just like erst's selling swirl pots for them


payen gaskets are good but they aint the best anymore since that american company took them over,, reinz on the other hand ARE very good

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

Ginge !
have you ever re used a head gasket i no what this bloke is saying but just coz he makes them doesnt mean he will no best people that re use the head gasket will tell you first hand that it ither work or it dont i have reused a few head gasket in my time with out a single problem but that wasnt my choice but it worked so yes it does work and no it didnt leake but my opinon on this is dont re use head gaskets but they can be if you are desprate and the gaket isnt broken

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

Are copper gaskets any good for block to manifold, manifold to manifold and turbo to manifold on a 2wd cossie set up? How much would they be?

Ginge !

mate the guy DESIGNS gaskets,, thats been hes job for 25 years,,, he was one of the people who solved the astra izuzu diesel head gasket issues aswell as one of a LARGE team contracted by landrover to finally solve the k-series headgasket issues ( btw the the K-series was the first productionn car to have a MLR headgasket,,,, that was designed by payen btw )

anyway he managed to solve them issues, so i think that makes his opinion quite valid,,,, 25 years designing and solving issues with fail headgaskets and made the company FAI outsell more than payen,,,, as said he DOES know his shite and is very good at what he does


how many headgaskets can be reused,, there NOT designed to be as they are ment to crush to make a thermal and airtight seal

i know you are not a fool and i DO trust your opinion and i KNOW you dont talk shite about anything,,, but reusing gaskets is not a good idea even if it can work


no point in having copper manifold gaskets,, a better option is MLR as its cheeper and wont have the same presures/temps as a head gasket so a little overkill

glancy2081

a think feriday engineering will make one for you wul

cossie604

iTrader: (2)

You just moved up a notch im my ratings I used to own a rd350lc power valve before I bough the gixxer...wicked little bikes except mine had an appetite for cranks