Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Normally yes, its the same issue, advance is totally wrong and if you add a fuel that requires more advance for teh same peak burn point, you will lose torque. However, proper fuel is a totally different ball game as it has a higher oxygen content and yields power all by itself, much the same as NOS, so sometimes you will just even out or gain very little when you should infact have gained lots by having the right map for it.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Good advice.


Not very many at all obviously, but the big power modern turbos do, such as the Audi RS6 to name one of my favourites.

JonnyBravo

I'll stick to my lpg mapping 3 boxes, enrichment table and some fuel trims to adjust.

Rather than risk "learning" this sort of stuff for my own use I would just rather pay someone (Stu in this case) to do proper mapping for me.

It is nice to have some sort of understanding about it though

rapidcossie

all the big turbo/supercharged Mercs no doubts

911 turbos too.

Its interesting to find out a bit more about this kinda thing

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Going to hit the sack fellas, been along day, hope you have enjoyed at least a bit of teh topic. We can carry on tomorrow if anyones still interested in this engine waffle.. lol

To the topic starter:
Sorry we ended up so far off topic, i can clean and split it if you like!

rapidcossie

Nite mate

glancy2081

you talk we will listen mate

Smit

iTrader: (5)

Stu - Nice 30min read bud. Thank you

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

i see that as usual the original question has been lost...............he asked what mpg we were getting..?????......i've had my car set up and mapped by two VERY well known tuners and my answers tell my day to day fuel economy....thats all he asked.........

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

What country we talking?? Scotland or England

dovboy

dont know for sure but i think its both,ava and mad

THE RADMAN

iTrader: (2)

no problems stu makes for some interesting reading so if i go for an engine rebuild at the end of the yr then it looks like you will be getting a call to sort the mapping

Charlie Chalk

iTrader: (1)

Impressive car anyway




Good read btw

Garage19

Just a quick anology that i heard once which is a good explanation of why we tend to get peak power at 12.7:1 - 13:1 rather than the chemically correct 14.7:1

If you were to have party and wanted to make sure all your mates got laid in the short time that was that evening you would invite more birds than blokes.

Think of the blokes as the oxygen atoms and the birds as the fuel molecules and your laughing!

rapidcossie

I think of britain as one big country and us all us brothers, you english CNUT

rapidcossie

yeah my car was mapped by Mark orginally and it made excelent power straight out the box, so to speak.

Alan at AVA has since re written the map after the various upgrades etc etc

I would be happy recommending BOTH to anyone on here

foreigneRS

good topic - eventually

i was thinking that in fact a big power car should make better economy at a cruise as the engine has more efficient breathing

but then i got to thinking about alex and stu's comment about needing a certain torque/power to maintain that cruise and then for a given mixture you will require the same amount of air and fuel in both the inefficent (low power, maybe small turbine housing) engine and the efficient (big power, big turbine).

but maybe the losses are different between the 2. you may have different friction from the rings for example (if you have an engine that is built more for endurance, rather than one to make high power with a short lifetime)

i've just given myself more questions than answers

Rick

Big turbo's usually always spell better economy. It's anything that slows gas speed at low rpm that will kill economy - as well as low compression.

Nice read Stu

rapidcossie

Mine is mega low comp and I still get ok mpg, so I wonder how much mpg would increase with higher comp.

frog

Brilliant, that's what PF is all about

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Your right, the bigger teh turbo the lower the pumping losses, thats why we can go low comp but bigger turbo and still retain almost teh same MPG. We lost some in comp but gained some in turbo.

The most annoying thing to me, is people are happy to accept a std T34 equipped 224bhp YB will do 30mpg on the Motorway, but the same people are also happy to accept the exact same engine will be shite on fuel if its running 380bhp peak.

Its EXACTLY the same engine, head, cams, compression and turbo, but different injectors and MAX boost pressure. What have those changes got to do with cruisig on the motorway?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Doh... this died a sudden death? Maybe we would have got to 9 pages if we had been talking about The effects of curry powder ona drunken mans bowels, or maybe the latest disney film.

marco polo

iTrader: (1)

will

you have hit the nail on the head mate

4x4

Stu @ M Developments


stu you sound like your one of the best at this around and you know what your talking about when it comes to tunning/mapping. your informtion is well backed up

If only you were closer to London and i would deffinately be happy with giving you hard earned money for your expertise.

unfortunately i dont have a cos at the mo.

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

if people would just answer the question asked,u wouldn't need all this shite.......... ......i've never had good m.p.g in any car i've owned....

4x4

Just for the record, the thread starter wanted to know what fuel consumption figures big power cosworths were getting, he never stated he was worried or put off so why say things like

"if your worried about it you cant afford to build a big power cos"?

because thats what he seemed to get at the beggining of the topic


its only common sense to prepare for something in avance and thats what it seems he was doing

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Thanks for teh kind words.
Dont let that put you off, we map pretty much anything at all. Mapping is mapping.


Agreed.

For the record, my T34.63, Siemens blacks car ran to the ring, did 32 laps, and drove home and averaged 20mpg. That INCLUDED the 32 laps of the nurburgring, which will have likely seen single figures a lot of the way round. On that entire journey it used under a pint of oil for those who care.

On an 80mph run she would see about 31mpg as a rule.

Deano

Diesel Mercs by any chance ?

dovboy

do you do p8 stu?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

And plenty of em mate.
Turbo Diesels are actually our specialist area of mapping.

http://www.motorsport-developments.c...data/index.php

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Yes pal, and unlike most companies, we genuinely can do it LIVE. Including ALS mapping LIVE.

dovboy

good to know stu ps i'm in blackpool this weekend for my stag doo,whare should i be going? pm me if you like

Deano

Ohhhhhh how do I tell if my E220 is an E2 or E3 variant , not that is seems to matter price wise .

Also , does the 30hp increase in power affect mpg adversely or somewhat improve it ?

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

Well on my run to the Pod last Sunday i got 27mpg doing about 75-80mph
371bhp using 400s, T34.55 and mild head porting.

Steve.

foreigneRS

i think it's important to make the dinstinction that when using big power the fuel economy will of course be terrible - but that does not mean that fuel economy has to always be terrible using an engine that is capable of big power

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

.....this whole thread and its answers has done my fookin' head in..... .....my car runs 420bhp....so i answered..... if its set up/mapped correctley, ...."depends on how u drive".....end off.....then u get the "well if it's mapped at %&*$Ł garage".........no it depends on ya foot....if u use the "horses",then expect the fuel to burn...gettn' it mapped is the way forward....closed loop is a good idea,but at the end off the day its ur driving style that determins the answer..............thank u and good night........

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

No its not.

Thank you and good night.

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

......twat.......

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

come on Stu, with your YEARS of experience you must know by now that a fast cossie has got to A) use loads of oil B) do 4 MPG " cos its on greys, innit" and C) need 9% c.o to "keep it cool"
and D) need rebuilding every 3000 miles

jeez, I think you need to get back to the drawing board old chap

rapidcossie

mine runs normal cossie CO at idle