fao the big power cossy owners
11-06-2007, 05:06 PM
#2
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DO NOT build a higher power engine if you are in the least bit worried about fuel consumpstion.
But to answer your question i get 250 miles for a tank on a cruise and less than 150 for spirited driving LOL
edited to say Im prob about 530 bhp on 4 1000cc injectors.
But to answer your question i get 250 miles for a tank on a cruise and less than 150 for spirited driving LOL
edited to say Im prob about 530 bhp on 4 1000cc injectors.
11-06-2007, 05:36 PM
#4
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
DO NOT build a higher power engine if you are in the least bit worried about fuel consumpstion.
But to answer your question i get 250 miles for a tank on a cruise and less than 150 for spirited driving LOL
edited to say Im prob about 530 bhp on 4 1000cc injectors.
But to answer your question i get 250 miles for a tank on a cruise and less than 150 for spirited driving LOL
edited to say Im prob about 530 bhp on 4 1000cc injectors.
wat lamda you getting on cruise
11-06-2007, 05:43 PM
#5
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Originally Posted by BROM@ZOO
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
DO NOT build a higher power engine if you are in the least bit worried about fuel consumpstion.
But to answer your question i get 250 miles for a tank on a cruise and less than 150 for spirited driving LOL
edited to say Im prob about 530 bhp on 4 1000cc injectors.
But to answer your question i get 250 miles for a tank on a cruise and less than 150 for spirited driving LOL
edited to say Im prob about 530 bhp on 4 1000cc injectors.
wat lamda you getting on cruise
I 100% get 250 miles for full tank to petrol light cruising at 70 mph.
11-06-2007, 05:53 PM
#7
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
DO NOT build a higher power engine if you are in the least bit worried about fuel consumpstion.
Anyone who tells you different is making excuses because the mapping is tricky with lower gas speed. The same goes for 90% of engines.
Once making power of course you need to burn fuel and more power - more fuel, but im sure that is NOT what the topic starter is reffering too, i think he is discussing daily driving fuel consumption and not 30 hard laps of the ring.
Thats doesnt answer teh topic starters question of course, but it is kind of still on topic.
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11-06-2007, 05:54 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by RWD_cossie_wil
If you use Stu's closed loop lambda, you get 30+MPG on a T4 with 1000cc injectors 
close to 500BHP spec 
close to 500BHP spec
11-06-2007, 05:56 PM
#9
Originally Posted by RWD_cossie_wil
If you use Stu's closed loop lambda, you get 30+MPG on a T4 with 1000cc injectors close to 500BHP spec
close to 500BHP spec 
11-06-2007, 05:56 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
DO NOT build a higher power engine if you are in the least bit worried about fuel consumpstion.
Anyone who tells you different is making excuses because the mapping is tricky with lower gas speed. The same goes for 90% of engines.
Once making power of course you need to burn fuel and more power - more fuel, but im sure that is NOT what the topic starter is reffering too, i think he is discussing daily driving fuel consumption and not 30 hard laps of the ring.
Thats doesnt answer teh topic starters question of course, but it is kind of still on topic.
I meant that if your thinking about building a big power engine and are worried about how much fuel it will use then you cant really afford to build the engine and run it in the car.
11-06-2007, 05:57 PM
#11
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if you are going above 400bhp i wouldnt worry to much about mpg because it will be VERY poor
if its empty i fill it,i have never counted miles for years now as there is no point
if its a worry i would speak to stu at msd about closed loop,that should help
if its empty i fill it,i have never counted miles for years now as there is no point
if its a worry i would speak to stu at msd about closed loop,that should help
11-06-2007, 06:00 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by dovboy
if you are going above 400bhp i wouldnt worry to much about mpg because it will be VERY poor
if its empty i fill it,i have never counted miles for years now as there is no point
if its a worry i would speak to stu at msd about closed loop,that should help
if its empty i fill it,i have never counted miles for years now as there is no point
if its a worry i would speak to stu at msd about closed loop,that should help
11-06-2007, 06:00 PM
#14
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
I didnt mean it in that way Stu.
I meant that if your thinking about building a big power engine and are worried about how much fuel it will use then you cant really afford to build the engine and run it in the car.
I meant that if your thinking about building a big power engine and are worried about how much fuel it will use then you cant really afford to build the engine and run it in the car.
That is a quite common reason of cossies killing engines in double short time with piss poor maps on big injectoras, usually greys... with loads of black smoke following them even on boost. ROFLOL.
Bottom line, if you only need to put in 1cc of fuel per minute to do teh job correctly, why put in 6,a nd where is the other 5 going?!?
11-06-2007, 06:01 PM
#15
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Originally Posted by dovboy
if you are going above 400bhp i wouldnt worry to much about mpg because it will be VERY poor
if its empty i fill it,i have never counted miles for years now as there is no point
if its a worry i would speak to stu at msd about closed loop,that should help
if its empty i fill it,i have never counted miles for years now as there is no point
if its a worry i would speak to stu at msd about closed loop,that should help
exactly the same way I look at it.
11-06-2007, 06:05 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
I didnt mean it in that way Stu.
I meant that if your thinking about building a big power engine and are worried about how much fuel it will use then you cant really afford to build the engine and run it in the car.
I meant that if your thinking about building a big power engine and are worried about how much fuel it will use then you cant really afford to build the engine and run it in the car.
A quite common reason of cossies killing engines in double short time with piss poor maps. Bottom line, if you only need to put in 1cc of fuel per minute to do teh job correctly, why put in 6?
Stu Stu Stu....hold up here...
where is this going?
What im trying to get at is, you dont buy a performance car and then worry about fuel consumption, you dont buy a ferrari and then worry about service costs etc etc
I have had my car mapped by IMO the two best mappers in the country and have had no issues with bore wash etc in almost 15k miles on my engine.
11-06-2007, 06:06 PM
#17
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Originally Posted by dovboy
if you are going above 400bhp i wouldnt worry to much about mpg because it will be VERY poor
if its empty i fill it,i have never counted miles for years now as there is no point
if its a worry i would speak to stu at msd about closed loop,that should help
if its empty i fill it,i have never counted miles for years now as there is no point
if its a worry i would speak to stu at msd about closed loop,that should help
exactly the same way I look at it.
Certainly not your machine shops or piston/crank suppliers, thats for sure.
11-06-2007, 06:09 PM
#19
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Stu Stu Stu....hold up here...
where is this going?
where is this going?
DO NOT build a higher power engine if you are in the least bit worried about fuel consumpstion.
if you are going above 400bhp i wouldnt worry to much about mpg because it will be VERY poor
I have even conceded your point and agreed with what your saying in teh way you intend it, but your statements didnt come across that way, so i elaborated for you.
11-06-2007, 06:13 PM
#20
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
who has engine wear and smokey mirrors Stu?
How many owners have you heard say:
"The turbo still smokes, changing the oil fixes it for a short time, but then its back..."
I still hear it regularly when fold phone up to pick my brains... RS Turbos are afflicted too.
LOL... Think about that problem and why it may be, based on information i have given in this topic.
11-06-2007, 06:14 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Stu Stu Stu....hold up here...
where is this going?
where is this going?
DO NOT build a higher power engine if you are in the least bit worried about fuel consumpstion.
if you are going above 400bhp i wouldnt worry to much about mpg because it will be VERY poor
I have even conceded your point and agreed with what your saying in teh way you intend it, but your statements didnt come across that way, so i elaborated for you.
Ofcourse I agree with you that the fuel tables have to be correct and like you say there is no point just "chucking" in some extra fuel for the sake of it.
You might want to look at what you have written tho as to me it almsot comes across as YOU slating every mapper that doesnt use closed loop on cruise.
11-06-2007, 06:17 PM
#22
Your 2 statements follow each other nicely though..
50 miles on a tenner of optimax isnt actually too bad though for a low comp YB is it? They only did about 60 ish miles when new (At a guess), So your proving my point, even though you seem to be trying your best to dissagree with me.
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
But to answer your question i get 250 miles for a tank on a cruise and less than 150 for spirited driving LOL
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
I have had my car mapped by IMO the two best mappers in the country and have had no issues with bore wash etc in almost 15k miles on my engine.
11-06-2007, 06:19 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Your 2 statements follow each other nicely though..
50 miles on a tenner of optimax isnt actually too bad though for a low comp YB is it? They only did about 60 ish miles when new (At a guess), So your proving my point, even though you seem to be trying your best to dissagree with me.
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
But to answer your question i get 250 miles for a tank on a cruise and less than 150 for spirited driving LOL
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
I have had my car mapped by IMO the two best mappers in the country and have had no issues with bore wash etc in almost 15k miles on my engine.
I dont get you?
Your saying that my engine must be ok as far as it can be for fuel etc etc.?
I DO agree with what your saying but still stcik with my first point about fuel consumption and overall running costs.
11-06-2007, 06:22 PM
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my two pee worth..............DEPENDS ON HOW U DRIVE IT......i went out this weekend and did 140 mile on half a tank and i even had a 165+ on the way down,but day to day driving to work n back i get about 170 mile and its in the bottom quarter......time to fill up......
11-06-2007, 06:22 PM
#26
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
You are looking at fuel usuage in relation with AFR and borewash etc, where as Im not.
Im looking at fuel usage as real world miles per gallon paid for by your wallet. What other way is theer to look at it?
Ofcourse I agree with you that the fuel tables have to be correct and like you say there is no point just "chucking" in some extra fuel for the sake of it.
You might want to look at what you have written tho as to me it almsot comes across as YOU slating every mapper that doesnt use closed loop on cruise.
A lot of the stuff i map live isnt capable of closed loop mate, in fact, the example i have given on this topic is a T4 car with 83lb siemens that is NOT running closed loop, so to be honest, i am unsure how you developed that opinion from my postings.
Closed loop just refines it and adds a great degree of self adjustment into the fuel calculation process, which does reap fuel and engine life rewards, but it is by no means required to achieve sensible fuel efficiency on any size injector.
11-06-2007, 06:25 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
You are looking at fuel usuage in relation with AFR and borewash etc, where as Im not.
Im looking at fuel usage as real world miles per gallon paid for by your wallet. What other way is theer to look at it?
Ofcourse I agree with you that the fuel tables have to be correct and like you say there is no point just "chucking" in some extra fuel for the sake of it.
You might want to look at what you have written tho as to me it almsot comes across as YOU slating every mapper that doesnt use closed loop on cruise.
A lot of the stuff i map live isnt capable of closed loop mate, in fact, the example i have given on this topic is a T4 car with 83lb siemens that is NOT running closed loop, so to be honest, i am unsure how you developed that opinion from my postings.
Closed loop just refines it and adds a great degree of self adjustment into the fuel calculation process, which does reap fuel and engine life rewards, but it is by no means required to achieve sensible fuel efficiency on any size injector.
11-06-2007, 06:26 PM
#28
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Your 2 statements follow each other nicely though..
50 miles on a tenner of optimax isnt actually too bad though for a low comp YB is it? They only did about 60 ish miles when new (At a guess), So your proving my point, even though you seem to be trying your best to dissagree with me.
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
But to answer your question i get 250 miles for a tank on a cruise and less than 150 for spirited driving LOL
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
I have had my car mapped by IMO the two best mappers in the country and have had no issues with bore wash etc in almost 15k miles on my engine.
I dont get you?
Your saying that my engine must be ok as far as it can be for fuel etc etc.?
I am saying that 250miles on Ł50 of optimax is at least a sensible fuel figure for a YB of your power, showing tjhat the mapping is decent and they are not just pissing fuel in because the mapper couldnt be bothered to do it properly.
I have 500bhp cossie owners regularly reporting 150miles to a full tank cruising in 5th at 70mph max mate, and sub 100 driving hard. Its pathetic and annoying that teh tuning world turns it out, tarring us all with the same brush.
I guess thats teh reason for this topic, peoples hould know that it is NOT a requirement of the power, it means somebody has fooked up.
11-06-2007, 06:29 PM
#29
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I have never understood this obsession with RS's running so rich. All this garbage about exta cooling too...
My yee olde CVH runs forged centre pin pistons, has done about 50k and uses NO oil at all. Not just a little bit, but nil. I can't help thinking that is because i'm not constantly dunping petrol into my sump!
My yee olde CVH runs forged centre pin pistons, has done about 50k and uses NO oil at all. Not just a little bit, but nil. I can't help thinking that is because i'm not constantly dunping petrol into my sump!
11-06-2007, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RWD_cossie_wil
Originally Posted by dovboy
if you are going above 400bhp i wouldnt worry to much about mpg because it will be VERY poor
if its empty i fill it,i have never counted miles for years now as there is no point
if its a worry i would speak to stu at msd about closed loop,that should help
if its empty i fill it,i have never counted miles for years now as there is no point
if its a worry i would speak to stu at msd about closed loop,that should help
in the real world its still shit.
more bhp requires more fuel simple,map the hell out of a 270bhp cos and do the same to a 400+ one and whats gonna use more fuel???
i will let u think about it while i remove my 500bhp ebay chip,thank god you told me before i had to get another purpleback out my wallet
11-06-2007, 06:36 PM
#31
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I feel i have current information on this topic as my car was mapped very recently FRIDAY!! My car is on T4 1000cc injectors and as many will tell you i dont drive like a granny (eh Stu ) .
I drove home from blackpool on friday late evening with not much traffic and cruised at a decent speed I filled up in blackpool with shell and when i got home 135 miles later i still had over half tank of fuel left and this is without closed loop and i gave the car a good few blasts with it being new to me and my excitement at having the car finished
When i got on the roads closer to home i used anti lag too so im sure that wouldnt of helped
To put this into perspective when i had my escort cossie on of my ex girlfriends lived in weston super mare 100 mile from my house and it used to take well over half a tank of fuel to get just there That was a stage 3 on greens dont know what chip but it drank the fuel
The moral GET THE CAR MAPPED BY A PROPER (Stu@msd) MAPPER AND UNLESS YOUR CONSTANTLY GIVING YOUR CAR ABUSE FUEL CONSUMPTION SHOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE
) .I drove home from blackpool on friday late evening with not much traffic and cruised at a decent speed
I filled up in blackpool with shell and when i got home 135 miles later i still had over half tank of fuel left and this is without closed loop and i gave the car a good few blasts with it being new to me and my excitement at having the car finished When i got on the roads closer to home i used anti lag too so im sure that wouldnt of helped
To put this into perspective when i had my escort cossie on of my ex girlfriends lived in weston super mare 100 mile from my house and it used to take well over half a tank of fuel to get just there
That was a stage 3 on greens dont know what chip but it drank the fuel The moral GET THE CAR MAPPED BY A PROPER (Stu@msd) MAPPER AND UNLESS YOUR CONSTANTLY GIVING YOUR CAR ABUSE FUEL CONSUMPTION SHOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE
11-06-2007, 06:36 PM
#32
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Touble is, people are still used to the bad old days of Greys, 9% C.o and borewash, and people STILL buy crap copied chips and expect them to work well , or just use an off the shelf chip.... A decent mapping session pays for itself in a few months in oil and fuel consumtion alone, let alone engine life...
, or just use an off the shelf chip.... A decent mapping session pays for itself in a few months in oil and fuel consumtion alone, let alone engine life...
11-06-2007, 06:42 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by dovboy
Originally Posted by RWD_cossie_wil
Originally Posted by dovboy
if you are going above 400bhp i wouldnt worry to much about mpg because it will be VERY poor
if its empty i fill it,i have never counted miles for years now as there is no point
if its a worry i would speak to stu at msd about closed loop,that should help
if its empty i fill it,i have never counted miles for years now as there is no point
if its a worry i would speak to stu at msd about closed loop,that should help
in the real world its still shit.
more bhp requires more fuel simple,map the hell out of a 270bhp cos and do the same to a 400+ one and whats gonna use more fuel???
i will let u think about it while i remove my 500bhp ebay chip,thank god you told me before i had to get another purpleback out my wallet
.... I am talking about cruise/ off boost/ closed loop conditions here, not foot to the floor thrashing... It is BLINDINGLY obvious that a 400BHP car will consume more air than a 270BHP car, and you need the extra fuel to burn with the air ... If you are that concerned about MPG then you should be driving a deisel polo..Why do people think though that a powerful YB has to equel huge bills and un-reliability?? Half the problem is poor mapping dumping gallons on unburnable fuel into the engine, washing the bores and polluting the oil ,which leads to wear which leads to High oil consumpition, etc etc, It is fairly obvious AGAIN that correct mapping pays for it's self...
a well set up YB in a cruise will return as much MPG as many modern cars. FACT
11-06-2007, 06:46 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by RWD_cossie_wil
Originally Posted by dovboy
Originally Posted by RWD_cossie_wil
Originally Posted by dovboy
if you are going above 400bhp i wouldnt worry to much about mpg because it will be VERY poor
if its empty i fill it,i have never counted miles for years now as there is no point
if its a worry i would speak to stu at msd about closed loop,that should help
if its empty i fill it,i have never counted miles for years now as there is no point
if its a worry i would speak to stu at msd about closed loop,that should help
in the real world its still shit.
more bhp requires more fuel simple,map the hell out of a 270bhp cos and do the same to a 400+ one and whats gonna use more fuel???
i will let u think about it while i remove my 500bhp ebay chip,thank god you told me before i had to get another purpleback out my wallet
.... I am talking about cruise/ off boost/ closed loop conditions here, not foot to the floor thrashing... It is BLINDINGLY obvious that a 400BHP car will consume more air than a 270BHP car, as you need the extra fuel to burn with the air ... If you are that concerned about MPG then you should be driving a deisel polo..Why do people think though that a powerful YB has to equel huge bills and un-reliability?? Half the problem is poor mapping dumping gallons on unburnable fuel into the engine, washing the bores and polluting the oil ,which leads to wear which leads to High oil consumpition, etc etc, It is fairly obvious AGAIN that correct mapping pays for it's self...
a well set up YB in a cruise will return as much MPG as many modern cars. FACT
11-06-2007, 07:05 PM
#35
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so you NEVER let the car warm up/cool down, you NEVER just drive along on a constant throttle off boost/ or on very low boost, your throttle is either on the floor or off? or are you running anti-lag? come on mate I would wager that if you use the full performance of your car 10% of the time you actually drive it you would be in hospital or banned by now
come on mate I would wager that if you use the full performance of your car 10% of the time you actually drive it you would be in hospital or banned by now
11-06-2007, 07:14 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by 4x4 ste
I feel i have current information on this topic as my car was mapped very recently FRIDAY!! My car is on T4 1000cc injectors and as many will tell you i dont drive like a granny (eh Stu ) .
I drove home from blackpool on friday late evening with not much traffic and cruised at a decent speed I filled up in blackpool with shell and when i got home 135 miles later i still had over half tank of fuel left and this is without closed loop and i gave the car a good few blasts with it being new to me and my excitement at having the car finished
When i got on the roads closer to home i used anti lag too so im sure that wouldnt of helped
To put this into perspective when i had my escort cossie on of my ex girlfriends lived in weston super mare 100 mile from my house and it used to take well over half a tank of fuel to get just there That was a stage 3 on greens dont know what chip but it drank the fuel
The moral GET THE CAR MAPPED BY A PROPER (Stu@msd) MAPPER AND UNLESS YOUR CONSTANTLY GIVING YOUR CAR ABUSE FUEL CONSUMPTION SHOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE
) .I drove home from blackpool on friday late evening with not much traffic and cruised at a decent speed
I filled up in blackpool with shell and when i got home 135 miles later i still had over half tank of fuel left and this is without closed loop and i gave the car a good few blasts with it being new to me and my excitement at having the car finished When i got on the roads closer to home i used anti lag too so im sure that wouldnt of helped
To put this into perspective when i had my escort cossie on of my ex girlfriends lived in weston super mare 100 mile from my house and it used to take well over half a tank of fuel to get just there
That was a stage 3 on greens dont know what chip but it drank the fuel The moral GET THE CAR MAPPED BY A PROPER (Stu@msd) MAPPER AND UNLESS YOUR CONSTANTLY GIVING YOUR CAR ABUSE FUEL CONSUMPTION SHOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE
Agree 100 %...also helps with the reliablity of the engine
11-06-2007, 07:19 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
I didnt mean it in that way Stu.
I meant that if your thinking about building a big power engine and are worried about how much fuel it will use then you cant really afford to build the engine and run it in the car.
I meant that if your thinking about building a big power engine and are worried about how much fuel it will use then you cant really afford to build the engine and run it in the car.
That is a quite common reason of cossies killing engines in double short time with piss poor maps on big injectoras, usually greys... with loads of black smoke following them even on boost. ROFLOL.
Bottom line, if you only need to put in 1cc of fuel per minute to do teh job correctly, why put in 6,a nd where is the other 5 going?!?
When you ask people why they run the so rich you get answers like
"cos it makes so much power it needs all that fuel to keep it cool"
"If rich is safe super rich must be be super safe. Its a super safe map"
"Its my safe running in map" wtf worst time to have bore wash!
"If i run 9:1 i can dial in loads more ignition advance to make loads more power"
11-06-2007, 07:21 PM
#38
Originally Posted by dovboy
more bhp requires more fuel simple,map the hell out of a 270bhp cos and do the same to a 400+ one and whats gonna use more fuel???
11-06-2007, 07:23 PM
#39
Originally Posted by Garage19
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Originally Posted by rapidcossie
I didnt mean it in that way Stu.
I meant that if your thinking about building a big power engine and are worried about how much fuel it will use then you cant really afford to build the engine and run it in the car.
I meant that if your thinking about building a big power engine and are worried about how much fuel it will use then you cant really afford to build the engine and run it in the car.
That is a quite common reason of cossies killing engines in double short time with piss poor maps on big injectoras, usually greys... with loads of black smoke following them even on boost. ROFLOL.
Bottom line, if you only need to put in 1cc of fuel per minute to do teh job correctly, why put in 6,a nd where is the other 5 going?!?
Its bloody rare i even get one in with the fooking FPR seal intact, and guess what, its always been removed to turn the fuel pressure UP.
11-06-2007, 07:30 PM
#40
well im getting a few answers here then, im not bothered about cost,unless it was like 10 to the gaLLON, im just enquiring what i could expect, at the mo mine is only on greens and im getting around 20 to the gallon,so if i did go for a rebuild to around 430 mark and decent mapping then it looks like it would still be the same?