BigErn

Right, I know it will probably have been asked before but I have tried the search option but found nothing of use so can someone please help me?

My car has Kent BD10s in it and Kent Vernier cam pulleys on it and Id like to know how to time it up/dial in properly. I changed the timing belt recently and was baffled when I went to re-time it so I put the standard cam pulleys on and timed it up to all its marks then removed them and put the verniers on and set them so the belt would sit on them but obviously its timed up to satandard pulleys, if that makes sense to you?

I presume this will be ok to use (have been for over a month) but would like to set them properly.

Also I noticed that the Kent pulleys were slightly smaller than standards so I dont know how much that will have effected timing?

Only info I can find on the Kent site is...

Application - Sports

Power Band - 1500-6500 RPM

Cam Lift (mm) - 8.56

Valve Lift (mm) - 8.56

Duration - 264 Deg

Timing - 17/62 62/22

Full Lift - Inlet 115 Deg Exhaust 110 Deg

VC (mm) - 0.00

LTDC - Inlet 0.66mm Exhaust 0.96mm

Any help or info will be much appreciated.

Ian

rapidcossie

Not a DIY job if you dont know what your doing as it can end in a broken engine.

col cos1

iTrader: (5)

ava are the champs at this

bit far from you though

BigErn

Spec of mine is - standard comp, 803's, 3 bar map sensor, L6 ECU, CP Chip, standard intercooler (till I find a cheap 2nd hand 500 one), BD10's, Vernier Cam Pulleys, ported & polished head, T35 turbo with cut back blades 360 bearing and .5 exhaust housing.

If anyone has an engine of similar spec could you tell me what your pulleys are set at please.

If not, does anyone know where I can get them set in the North East area.

Ian

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

stu cant be that far away from you can he ?

BigErn

2 hours drive thereabouts, never thought of Stu. My heads not working properly tonight cos Im tired.

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

ahhhh.......get ta bed......night night

BigErn

U wanna tuck me in Pete?

BigErn

And maybe a story?

How about a fairy story about a totally reliable problem free high powered economical Cossie.

pete mcrash

iTrader: (1)

.......my imagination isn't that good................

rapidcossie

would be very difficult to set up cam timing on the road..

JTECH James

iTrader: (13)

yeah it would be.... how would you undo the vernier bolts with the engine running? how would you get under the bonnet

you would need wheels on your shoes

i'll get my coat

GARETH T

ill give you a very quick idea of how to do it

fit cambelt how you would normally,, make your own timing marks on all pulleys so that you dont move anything not to cause a bent valve, try not to move the crank/cams without a belt on

next you need to measure an accurate TDC of the crank (remember there is a dwell period os the middle of this dwell is true TDC) do this by using a dti down the plug hole with maybe a long finger extension

next you need to mount a full protractor onto the crank pully when its in its TDC position and make a pointer so that its is pointing at 0 degrees


move the crank to 115 degrees after Tdc (remember we are playing with a four stroke engine, so there is two TDC per cycle ,, we are looking for the cycle betweem exhast and inlet)

now we need to mount a DTI onto the cam follower of number one inlet side, now we adjust the camshaft timing so that full lift is happening at this crank angle (so slacken pulley wheels bolts and move just the cam) the cam will also have a dwell period so we need to measure the centre of that dwell,,,,lock pulley bolts back up

now move the crank two 110 degree before TDC (or 250 degrees if you are using a full protector if you get me)
set full lift on the exhaust cam (remember theres a dwell at full cam lift so aim for the centre again)

check and recheck that full lift happens when it should by rotating the engine a good few times, if you fitted standard wheels then changed to the veriers, the cams would be miles out so dont do anything silly

its a bit in depth if you dont know what position cam phasing happens so dont try it untill it is 100% clear in your head

abdr500

iTrader: (1)

you cant just copy the timming marks of another car it dont work that way head thick nes can alter were the marks are from one car to another best way for now would be to leave it at std marks as you have done

rapidcossie

coswurv

iTrader: (8)

Get it checked before something nasty happens mate cause let's face it your luck isnt normaly the best !!

ian sibbert

Gareth,

Stop doing it the old fashion way....get it done the TDC method...like Dave Andrews and Dave Walker use.....

Setting the cam timing using 'lift at TDC' method

By far the best way of establishing the correct cam timing is to measure and set the valve lift at Top Dead Centre on the non firing stroke. The lift at TDC for each of the cams in the Piper range is given on the Piper page, note that this may be different for the inlet and exhaust cams of a pair. Once your verniers are fitted it is necessary to establish TDC for cylinders 1 and 4 on the engine, this is actually marked with a small embossed pattern on the front timing cover and a corresponding small notch on the back face of the pulley, it is probably a good idea to mark the embossed line for TDC (this will be the last line on the right in a group of 4 lines on the cambelt cover) and the notch on the back of the pulley with a small dab of white paint or similar to make it easy to spot. The picture below shows the timing marks with the crank aligned at TDC



To establish the correct cam timing you will need a dial gauge with a suitable stand or mounting strip , an allen key for the vernier bolts, a long 17mm spanner/socket to adjust the cam timing and a 22mm socket and bar to turn the crank.

Procedure for inlet valve

i) Remove the cam cover and gasket

ii) Remove the cam belt cover

iii) Turn the engine to exactly TDC (Top dead centre on nos. 1 / 4)

iv) Select the cylinder that has both valves slightly open (it will be 1 or 4)

v) Take your dial gauge and clamp it so that the point of the gauge is resting on the cam follower of one of the inlet valves for the selected cylinder and is perpendicular to the surface of the follower, it the tip isnt long enough, use a small piece of TIG wire or similar to extend it,set the dial gauge scale to zero.

vi) Turn the engine anti-clockwise slowly until the needle on the dial gauge no longer moves. This indicates that the valve is shut, note while doing this how much the needle moves, this value is the current lift at TDC, turn the engine back to TDC and note the movement in the needle to confirm.

vii) If this is not the desired value, slacken the clamp bolts on the vernier and then using a long extension bar and a 17mm socket turn the cam using the centre sprocket bolt to change the lift, if you want more lift, turn the cam sprocket bolt clockwise (so that the vernier needle moves towards the 'advance' side), if you want less lift turn the cam sprocket bolt anti-clockwise (towards the 'retard' side). While doing this note the change in lift until it reaches the desired figure, then tighten the clamp bolts on the vernier.

viii) Turn the engine back to TDC and then recheck the lift by turning the engine anti-clockwise and noting the needle movement again as in section vi, re-check by returning to TDC

ix) If it's not right, repeat steps vi) to viii)

Procedure for exhaust valve

x) Attach the dial gauge so that the the tip is resting on a cam follower for one of the exhaust valves in a similar manner as descirbed in section v, set the gauge scale to zero.

xi) Turn the engine clockwise until the needle on the gauge no longer moves which indicates that the valve is shut, note while doing this how much the needle moves, this value is the current lift at TDC, turn the engine back to TDC and note the movement in the needle to confirm.

xii) If this is not the desired value, slacken the clamp bolts on the vernier and then using a long extension bar and a 17mm socket turn the cam using the centre sprocket bolt to change the lift, if you want more lift, turn the cam sprocket bolt anti-clockwise (so that the vernier needle moves towards the 'retard' side), if you want less lift turn the cam sprocket bolt clockwise (towards the 'advance' side). While doing this note the change in lift until it reaches the desired figure, then tighten the clamp bolts on the vernier.

xiii) Turn the engine back to TDC and then recheck the lift by turning the engine clockwise and noting the needle movement, re-check by returning to TDC

xiv) if it's not right, repeat steps xi) to xiii)

It's easier to do than to type and its intuitive too.

http://www.dvapower.com/

GARETH T

ive done it like that before,,, and many moons ago,, i said about it on the RSOC, but everyone dissed me (i had just read a dave walker artical somewhere )

ian sibbert

Gareth...

I see you as a young Isaac Newton, with a touch of Brunel and Stephenson.....oh and Fred Dibnah... ..all were misunderstood genius's of their day pal.....

GARETH T

tabetha

You are missing the point, the reason why verniers are a good idea is so you can adjust it INDIVIDUALLY FOR YOUR CAR, it needs to be on a rolling road where they can then swing the cam timing either way to get you the best power.
The way to set up as above is what you do to get it running and will be close enough to do no harm, ford marks are not the most accurate in the world anyway.
Once up and running, get it booked in to have the cam timing optimised, or if you don't want to you may as well sell the verniers as you are not taking advantage of them and what they were designed for, thye only have one function let them do it fully and get you some extra power.
For instance swinging the exhaust timing will move the torque point so you can have the best of both worlds.
tabetha

GARETH T

tabetha

but with the good old YB we can genrally , genralize cam timing,, as specs dont vary much! with bd10 in the engine,, you could play about with cam timing alot of a rolling road,,, im sure wure you would end up with full lift somewhere where you started! on different specs i do agree with you though

tabetha

I agree with you the cam will no doubt end up at best somewhere std setting wise, only as he has the verniers it would be silly not to use them if he could gain from them.
Dave knows what he is talking about, as he did yesterday when I saw him, I see him nearly every day, and still have the utmost regard for him and his abilities.
Engines that I have timed in the past I have not found anything over around 4/5 degrees to make much difference, only on high lift high comp ones, particularly some toyotas which were mega fussy, more down to head design though.
tabetha

GARETH T

i do love reading anything that dave writes,, as he always makes it seam like he is writing it as a person and not a robot if you know what i mean

tabetha

He is a very down to earth type of person, he actually turns work away if he thinks it is pointless, he has a big waiting list anyway!!
I like the features on his 924 in the mag, it has not had a clutch(that works) in it for months, was looking at the new one a couple of days ago, he is doing it this weekend so more features soon on ??(can't say), will be worth the wait though.
I know what you mean about his style of writing he assumes not everybody is a tech head and writes in plain english, which is good.
His only fault is he has a memory like a sieve!!, but then I can't talk either, has some interesting projects on the go though.
He even promised a feature in his walkers workshop for my car but forgot!!, just photo on the dyno that's all for the locals!!.
He is honest to a fault, you would not beleive how far people come to his rollers to get a decent job done.
What impresses me is the way he admits mistakes, I try to hide mine!!
tabetha

GARETH T

if you dont mind me being nosey tabetha,,,, what do you do for a living, as you seam to have a great grasp of engineering

WD Pro

Same thoughts here - allways quick to help with a no bullshit responce