dojj

iTrader: (3)

the towers are a side issue here, i think th big thing people need to concentrate on is the pentagon attack first
once that is cleared up you will either have more of less peole intrested in the other planes/hijackings depending on what you find

if no one can confirm who shot kennedy all these years later, i'm sure everyone who was involved will be history before anything is actually done

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

There is plenty of evidence of a plane hitting the pentagon

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1

smithy20vt

Thats an extremely well written article..

With a lot of information more than i have ever read about what happened at the Pentagon before..

Graham S1

Not a bad site. But honestly, you berate me for some of the sites I visit... and you give me a link to "Above Top Secret".

It does a half decent job. Only one set of landing gear though (should be 3 surely?), only one engine. They also reference the Purdue animation, which as I mentioned earleir, has the engines simply "melting" into the building. Same with the wings.

Here's another point to think about. The hole in the Pentagon, is on the ground floor. Right on the ground. Now the centre of the fuselage of a 7x7, is going to be at least 15 ft in the air, because of the height needed for the engines under the wings. So how is the hole not on the second floor?

And one other thing, which I can pretty much guarantee, most of you will not have heard of........

Some independent researchers I know of, have managed to get through FOIA requests, BOTH the black box data, AND the flight data recorder information. BOTH these pieces of information, show the plane coming in at the wrong angle, so it cannot of hit any lightpoles at all. It's a difference of about 20 degrees on the approach path, and puts it on the other side of the Citgo petrol station.

It also shows the plane at 273 feet above the Pentagon, with two seconds to go to impact. The last two seconds of data for the FDR are missing, and the last second of the black box information.

So where does that leave us? Did the NTSB fake the data? Unlikely given the millions of cells of information recorded by the FDR. Is the Official Conspiracy Theory Incorrect?

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

The site is unimportant, the info presented isn't - hell its a pro conspiracy site (ie one of yours )

What do you want, onboard video footage of the crash?

Is multiple eye witness accounts and the actual plane wreckage and crash site not enough?

Your wild allegations and claims of having inside information just make you look rediculous

All the evidence is there for what happened and the only question that needs to be answered is

How do we stop it from happening again?

The 911 crashes are unprecidented so will never have the same crash site characteristics as a normal plane crash, most pilots dont go full throttle into the ground at 500mph

Planes are made of lightweight materials including the engines and landing gear, what the hell do you think will happend to these materials if you shash them into solid concrete at 500mph

Billy Sasterd

Please guys don't encourage Graham by questioning his conspiracy theories, you are wasting your fingernails. He does not even believe that the face staring back at him in the mirror is himself .................. he believes he was abducted and his head was stolen by aliens

Disrespectful to the dead.................

AdamB

this program was absolute bullshit

i've watched and looked in to the conspiracies and i too believe that there is so much that we are not being told

in my opinion, nothing we ever see on government controlled tv will allow the truth to be told

and the program on tuesday was complete proof of this, all it did was try and defend itself against the conspiracy theories, and not even convincingly

anyways think about it... if there was one power in the world that could cover anything up, it would be the American/British Government wouldn't it

AdamB

government officials

look into it, it has a lot to do with research for zero point energy and space travel

AdamB

answers:

it would take about two weeks to plant the right amount of explosives

for the two weeks prior to the "terrorist attack" security and the bomb sniffing dogs were removed from the building

a couple of weeks before the incident two (yes two) insurance policies were taken out on the twin towers solely against terrorist attacks

and who was in charge of security of the twin towers? one of bush's relatives

ooh, dont you find it strange that the towers were alse built to withstand being hit by a plane, yet still they fell

i wont go on, it just pisses me off that so many people aren't open minded enough to at least ask questions

the conspiracies aren't there to tell you that what they say is the truth, but it does show that there are questions that are unanswered, and things that dont make sense

ivorbiggun

Interesting how anyone who doesn't swallow 'the party line' is a conspiracy theorist....

Perhaps all those above are too busy getting in line for their 'ID' cards/
strange how mine seems to have what looks suspiciously like an aerial
on the back of it/just like the new passports really.

Still 'if you've done nothing wrong you've nothing to fear' etc etc ZZZZZZZZZ

RichardPON

dojj - don't believe the hype.

The hole was measured at 75'.

The 12' or 20' hole that the CTists like to trot out is the EXIT hole on the the other side of one of the rings.

It really IS that simple.

You only have to watch Loose Change to see how bad their research is.

e.g. Loose Change suggests that it was done plane that hit the Pentagon because the engine parts found don't look like Pratt and Whitney engine parts from a 757. That is the basis for the whole pentagon theory.

However, what they don't tell you, is that the pentagon 757 was running Rolls Royce engines. Of course, when directed to Rolls Royce, they told them that they couldn't identify the parts..... and the makers of Loose Change use that as conclusive proof that it must have been a drone or missile.

What they don't tell you AGAIN is that they contacted a small RR factory that deals with light aircraft, and has no experience with the larger engines. Note, they didn't contact the factory where 757 engines are made...... because that's how you seek fo the truth. You ignore the facts that don't agree with you theory!

timrud

Ok, so you CT people answer me this.

How did all the wreckage get there, without a single person who is not in on the CT seeing them put it there?

Graham S1

PON, are you blind or something? Have you looked at any PRE collapse pictures? Yes your right about the exit hole. Can you show me what exterior hole pics your looking at?

And ref the 6.9 miles thing..... not something cooked up by the "theorists", but by the media?

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...b/s_12967.html

The Rapid 1

Rich
For someone that doesnt believe in the CT's versions, you seem like you done even more homework and digging than anyone lol

Cant say I believe evrything that is said EITHERWAY

BUT a couple of questions surely, like both already said here are surely about the way it was allowed to happen, ie the intelligence, surely they would have had some sort of idea

And everyone saying of course the engines and planes would just melt hitting a concrete wall at 500 mph, well 1 nothing just disapears, it changes into summit else, there is X ammount of metal, even when molten it will cool and leave lumps of metal, the concrete didnt melt so didnt absorb the metal, it has to be somewhere
And along the same lines, IF it could just "fail to exist" anymore as metal, how come human bodies survived, surely the heat would have "disappeared" the bodies as well

Find it trully hard to believe they would be able to wire the towers with explosives etc, but do believe there sumit not 100% above board


Steve

Graham S1

here's the series producer Guy Smith, on alex Jones' show on Monday. He might as well be a mop, the floor was wiped with him.

http://www.911podcasts.com/files/aud..._alexjones.mp3

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

And yet not one of the thousands of people working in the 3 buildings saw or heard anything

I took out house insurance, must mean I'm planning a fire then

It was designed to withstand much smaller planes with less fuel than a 757, the design of the buildings was hardly modern

All they do is make themselves feel clever whilst diverting attention from the real failings of 911 which is "The fact that the terrorist managed to pull it off in the first place undetected"

Have you examined all the debris or just jumped to a conclusion that the plane didn't exist and all eye witness' where liars and the debris found was planted without anyone noticing (including the press who where on scene within minutes)

Just cos not many recogonisable plane parts are in the pictures does not mean it vanished, most of it will have been inside the building ie out of sight

Had enough of this drivel now as its obvious that some aint intrested in the blindingly obvious

RichardPON

Steve,

The irony is, I'm the most open minded person you could ever hope to meet!

I believe that there was far more to the JFK incident than the "official truth" would have you believe, so I'm not even anti-conspiracy theory!

I also spent 5 years at Uni studying history and historical research, and my biggest complaint with the CT is the way that the theorists ignore standard practice and procedure when approaching evidence and source material.

For example, you HAVE to question the accuracy of a documentary that use independant press that has an agenda to back up its own theories.

It's also the sheer arrogance of CTists that somehow they know better. Graham's even done it himself above, where he says that the towers fell in identical ways, even though the ACTUAL PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE shows the top part of the South Tower falling at an angle:

Picture on the left is from Loose Change. Picture on the right is not. Easy enough to manipulate events and timeframe to make things appear as they are not:



I actually watched Loose Change , wanting to believe like most, that there was a conspiracy, because the bottom line is, conspiracies are exciting, and offer the believer an opportunity for expansion of ego.

I would simply want the evidence behind the theories to stand up to scrutiny in the traditional sense. If you were to get the makers of Loose Change into any democratic open court in the world, they would be torn to shreds for over-dependance on circumstantial eveidence, lack of evidence in some cases, and lies in others.

I want qualified source material, and experts that are experts. The fact that Loose Change relies on charlatans, and liars to support its house of cards does them no favours at all.

I would also wish CTists were open minded enough to admit that they were wrong where it has been proven........ but you can see Graham's attitude for yourself. The irony is that he was openly distributing these videos without even ascertaining their credibility - now which person looks like the deluded, brainwashed one?

RichardPON

What, the people who died?

You sick fuck.

RichardPON

With the level of grammar on this board, no.

However, if you didn't mean that, I stand corrected. I still think you're wrong that people shouldn't debate issues, simply because the issue happened on American soil. your xenophobia sort of highlights why you're so keen to agree with the theories....

Ratty

iTrader: (1)

Didn't they collapsed from the top down

If they look crazy because someone posts evidence that is contrary their claims then maybe their theory is just a crazy idea, or are you not allowed to question CT theories

Billy Sasterd

Well,

I offered Graham a while ago when he was pedalling this shit Ł25k if he could prove that the planes that hit the WTC or the Pentagon were NOT real bona fide commercial aircraft. He stated that they were remote controlled drones filled with explosives (thermobaric bombs) GUFFAW.............

Graham,

If you can prove this diaroheoa, you can have my house(s), my cars (4) you can even have my wife and daughters and the Ł25k....................

I'm still waiting.............................

big_wig_074

please explain this utter tripe you have just written!when a plane crashes you seriously expect the wings to NOT flex at all?have you EVER looked out of a window in flight and seen the deflection on the wings as it travels?please dont try and bullshit me here,im a aircraft technician and have seen a fair amount of wing flex,i can make the end of a vc10 wing move nearly 6ft just by jumping up and down on it! and when we jack the a/c up they move MANY degrees from rest! so an aircraft at max chat hitting the floor and probably pulling back to get the correct angle of attack,the fuselage would,MATTER OF FACT, hit the ground!



then Adam B,you say the towers were designed to be hit by a plane and stand?well the titanic was supposed to be unsinkable,but guess what!

just accept that what happened,happened. the amount of time and money and personnel willing to NOT say anything or feel remorse for killing hundreds of people to be in on it is ridiculous,even if bush himself was head of security do you think he would turn a blind eye to killing all these people?and all the securoty staff there would just wave and smile to hundreds of people that they KNEW were being sent to certain death by going to work?and NOONE would say anything?

would YOU do it?could you?could you find enough like minded sadist experts in all of their fields to accomplish this?the answer probably is a 2 letter word beginning with n and ending with o

Graham S1

And back then, I also said that you could make a cool million, by going to Jimmy Walter and proving they WERE NOT demolished. Surely thats a more tempting offer? I also asked you HOW you wanted me to prove it, as I wasn't allowed to use any links or pictures, but you never answered that one Chris. Why not toddle off back to the RSOC where you belong eh?

PON, the reason I distributed Loose Change, was not to "proove outright" anything, but a) show that the Official Conspiracy Theory was full of lies, omissions and distortions, and b) because it was about the only half decent 911 movie about at the time, with no copyright, and free distribution encouraged.

I never stated anywhere that LC was 100% accurate, and had no errors. I now distribute 911 mysteries if anyone wants one.

As I keep saying, their are far more docs available now, more accurate, and better presented. Loose Change, is, frankly old news at the moment.

Even supporters of the OCT (Official Conspiracy Theory), are conspiracy theorists themselves. The event (911), was a conspiracy by definition, (a plan by 2 or more people to harm others), and the Official Version, is a theory of what happened.

So we're ALL conspiracy theorists by definition.

Even though you haven't really faced any of the previously posted information, lets throw a couple of other things into the mix......

Why was there "rivers" of molten metal below the Towers, and extreme temperatures six weeks after the collapse.

Why was Atta wired $100,000 by the ISI (Pakistani Intelligence Service), shortly before 911?

ahh, but it didn't touch the ground. didn't even break the cable spools right in front of the Pentagon.

timrud

The buildings did withstand the impact of the planes. What brought them down was the heat frpm the impact and resulting fires eventually melted the supporting ironwork for what was above. That collapsed, then the momentum of that brought everything else down.

JohnnyB

I am not going to reply with any thing intelegent as I think Mr Pon is covering my thoughts to the tee.


lets just put it this way, Graham you went for a shit today you put the seat down and pushed, you wiped your arse and flushed. but you did not see the shit as fucked off down the U bend. But after thinking about it you thought hmmm I did not see that shit so I must not have shit.


You and all the people who think its was a inside job are total and utter fuck wits of the highest degree. A donkey trying to play chess on acid has more logic than you people.

AdamB

[quote="big_wig_074"]it wasn't the titanic fuckwit! do some fucking research! all through history the "super-powers" have done things and then covered it up

Billy Sasterd

Well there we have it in a nutshell, the sad mind of the CT.

Make an outrageous statement, then ask people to disprove it. If someone states that there are fairies living at the bottom of their garden, it is up to them to prove it is it not???? I have seen your badly photoshopped and fireworked "evidence". It is still sh!te I'm afraid

Graham,

Please contact Jimmy Wanker, and tell him that I had Sunday Lunch at my home with some aliens from the planet Neptune. We had a sweet Dodo pate, followed by Pterodactil nest soup, then roast Brontosaurus, washed down with a nice Chiante.

If he would like to prove ME wrong, he can have all my worldly possessions

Oh, by the way, I was surprised that they shut your thread down on the RSOC .................... They usually like to leave stuff up there that disrespects me ................ censorship by selective moderating


Nice try tho' ................ you will be invited and embraced into the inner circle of the dark side if you carry on


Making money, disrespecting the dead ................... This CT stuff is almost as insidious as child porn

MWF

I was going to post this, it's an absolutely amazing report and totally strips Loose Change down to what it really is. One of those Web sites I started reading at work and had to race home to continue reading it in the evening.

Sadly the damage is already done. Thanks to the exposure such a laughable documentary like LC it's only going to serve to discredit CT theorists in general. Much in the same way Oliver Stones JFK did to the Kennedy Assassination and the Fox special into the moon landing conspiracy theory.

Graham S1 and Matt J sadly you have to accept that you have served a large part in promoting what is actually misinformation and only served to make yourselves look less credible sources of information on this subject.

andyhardy

Here bloody here!

I find that the most annoying thing about people creating conspiracy theories, because with some of them I think that people may be onto something but then they completely ruin it (and any subsequent investigation) by digging up unsubstantiated evidence and hearsay. If only they could be more like Scully and less like Mulder!

MWF

Well said.

When I was a kid I used to go to the library with my parents pretty much every week. I was completely fascinated with the conspiracies and UFO books they had. I really wanted to find some genuinely interesting stuff but even at that age I knew what I was looking at was just speculation and attention seeking.

Danny Wallace did an excellent episode of Conspiracy where he summed up the whole CT world really well. Basically he concluded, like a lot of us I think, that the real conspiracies in action are those of the theorists themselves and they are duping innocent people into believing their claims only to propagate their own agenda which is often fame and money. It's these guys that are consciously misleading people, using people, trying to bury evidence and changing their stories.

Eagle

iTrader: (2)

there was to be honest no real proof offered to uphold it .. there are inconsistancies with some ofit .. but like most they will carry on arguing about it for many years tocome...

Graham S1

Right. Real hot. Besides, isn't steel a really good conductor of heat?



Photoshopped?



Nah, cause after light nights curry, I could still feel it.

Nice. Thanks.

Why would I want your house/car/wife/daughters anyway? I have my own thanks.

Which ones are photoshopped pray tell? You never did answer that one.

If he's giving away a million, I doubt he needs anything you've got.


Making money? I give material away (not just loose change btw). I accept contributions if people want to to cover costs.

Please find me all these relatives that are moaning about "conspiracy theories". Far from disrepecting the dead mate. I'm helping the ones that are STILL dying from 911. In both New York and Iraq.

Look up how many first responders are getting very ill, and dying from the shit they inhaled in the days following 9/11. The city authorities told them the air was safe to breathe.

Most of the information I post isn't even in LC. And like I said, it was the only thing of it's type around then. There has been far more research done since then. However, will be very interesting to see when the Final Cut, comes out later this year.

There's another Dan Wallace. He lost his father in the WTC's. He was an ardent campaigner for a new investigation into 911. He died recently in his sleep at age 23. Nature of death not yet determined.

So what is that supposed to be showing exactly? One tilted slightly before it fell. Was that the one that fell in 9 seconds or 11?

I didn't state, I said it could be. Are you saying we don't have the technology for that?

And that about sums it up. You all think that I "beleive" ALL of these "theories", or every word that Loose Change says. I haven't in any post, stated any of them as being fact. Most of the time I'm asking questions. And people rarely reply back with anything but insults. I'd bet most of you haven't even read the 9/11 Comission Report.

9/11 could be an inside job.
It could have been that an outside influence "hi-jacked" the war games going on that day.
It could be that the US multi billion dollar defence system is useless, along with their intelligence agencies.

Does anyone want to debate about the announcement of $2.3 TRILLION dollars missing from Pentagon budgets, announced on Sept 10th?

edit: BTW the Flight Data recorder information, isn't "super secret", it's being dissected on a public forum. Jump over here, and these guys they're nits.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/

DOCK1

What do you mean?
That heat wouldn't of weakend the structure?

Just look at any steel framed building after its been on fire, they buckle to fuck.