leecavturbo

what amount is typical across intercooler and boost pipework?
i.e i think i have 1.5bar at turbo outlet but 1.2bar at inlet manifold ?
good, bad, average ?

wayneclayden

witha really well sorted system you should see a gain!

leecavturbo

now that is sales talk

rapidcossie

true tho mate

most people notice an increase in boost when fitting a more effcient intercooler...i know i did when i fitted a pro alloy 500 one

wayneclayden

stevieturbo

That isnt what he asked though.


He asked what is a typical boost loss in the system, from turbo, to intake manifold.

I would think that 0.3 bar ( 4.4psi ) sounds like a reasonable ( large ) amount. It would be nicer to see that do 1-2psi, or no more than 3psi.

Or is Pro-Alloy saying when you have an efficient system, you will see more boost in the intake manifold, than you do as it exits the turbocharger, before it has met any restrictions to flow entering the engine ???

Rs1

iTrader: (1)

I was thiking that was a bit backwards myself...turbo is pushing 1.5 bar but the engine see's more, fuck me i want one of those pro alloy coolers

stevieturbo

me too....

My DIY one is a mess lol

Rod-Tarry

will be in touch- need a intercooler designed so that a t3 can make 2.9bar held so I can send my laggy turbo back.
Whats the secret a GT40 inside the Intercooler, thats Clever.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Ive never seen or heard of anyone having more boost in their plenum than they have in their compressor outlet.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Install a massive heater in your plenum, you will manage it then, pv=nrt and all that

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

oh dear its guna be a long day

wayneclayden

simple really- cooler air has more oxydgen and therefore more density.
couple that with a lack of restriction through the rev range generally equals more boost!.
we are not talking huge amounts here but when you compare that to a potential loss with a poor set up the difference would be significant.
You can't acheive this on all vehicles due to space/pipework constraints
and we are not the only company that can acheive this!

Chip

iTrader: (3)

What???????

That doesnt make any sense at all.
Cooler Air is indeed desner, that means that the pressure will be LOWER for the same mass of air in the same vessel.

And the % of oxygen doesnt change.


I dont think you understood the question, he is asking about boost measured at the plenum versus boost measured at the compressor outlet of the turbo, he isnt talking about comparing the plenum figures between a standard IC setup and an aftermarket one


As above, I dont think you understood the question???


More density means that for any given mass of air you will have LESS pressure in the same vessel though

stevieturbo

So if I have pro-alloy fab me an intercooler, and I dont see more boost in the plenum, than I do at the compressor.....

I get it for free ????

foreigneRS

Pro Alloy Motorsport good welders and fabricators you may be - physicists you clearly are not

rapidcossie

you see more bost by removing restrictions...

a bigger, freeer flowing intercooler is one way... i got 2 psi.

i also saw a large boost increase after fitting new exhaust... i got 5 psi.

stevieturbo

That still isnt what the guys are saying....

Some seem to think, its possible to get more boost after restrictions, than when measured before them. In effect, you are getting gains for free.

Its kind of impossible....

In a sealed system you put 10psi in before a restriction ( IC+plumbing ), and you get say 15 out ???
If you had an excellent efficient system, you may still get 10psi out. But if you can get more, I say its a miracle.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The way to get more boost after the intercooler is by warming the intercooler to 500 degrees with a blow torch, try it and you will see it works, you WILL see an increase in pressure after it then.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Yeah but to be fair, I heard that Boyle was shite at making radiators, so it all evens out in the long run

GARETH T

PMSL now that if propper funny

RWD_cossie_wil

iTrader: (9)

chip is %100 correct can't argue with physics

Just out of interest Euan, were you running a 3" mongoose into a 4" tailpipe before? What are you running now?

To be fair I think pro-alloy has missed the question somewhat, if you replaced a crappy STD cooler with a high-flowing one, you WOULD see an increase in boost pressure without turning it up .

Lee is talking about pressure drop and losses across his system

RichieST

iTrader: (2)

the more efficient the intercooler pipework is, the faster the air will flow, so less pressure.

Same output from turbo + freer flowing cooler = less pressure.

So basically, the more restrictive the flow, the more pressure build up surely?

YBP

I have half the loss.
0,15bar drop from compressorhousing to manifold. 1,8bar and 450+bhp

foreigneRS

as pointed out by YBP in a roundabout way, the pressure drop depends on the amount of airflow that you have through the system

rapidcossie

i was running a magnex system..it was 3" into a twin 2.25 " system, i now run an AVA system that is 4" for about half the system then into a twin 3" system.....good for 700 bhp before it starts to restrict again.

the boost increase half a bar without altering any mechanicals of the engine.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Intercooler that actually works and loses heat from the charge = the pressure will drop


So an intercooler that sees a boost gain would in fact be an inter heater, lol


The key thing here of course is that its not boost you want, its airflow, so if the charge gets cooler and the pressure drops, then thats still good.



Conversely if the pressure drops due to restrictive pipework that means the turbo has to work even harder, and thats bad.



So you could have two intercooler that both see the same boost at the plenum from say 30psi in the compressor housing, but if one is doign so at a lower temperature then thats the better option to go for.

Fiecos Dan

on my fiecos,

at 7500 rpm in 6th with 33 psi @ the compressor housing, = 30-31 psi after the intercooler and at the plenum.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Useful info at last, only took 20 replies

Nice one

Fiecos Dan

Also,

there needs to be a restriction thro the inter, for it to slow down and cool the charge air.


i think 1-3 psi psi drop is fine, below and above will indicate flow/cooling issues.


Ps, im running a AH fabrications rs500 core, with my own design end tanks, The same core that come out best on the PF test, even tho testing them only to 100mph, will never of showed any of the intercoolers real performances.

MarkTurbo

So thats why the engineers at Nissan stuck the gti-r intercooler on top the engine then, maybe they knew what they were doing after all

Fiecos Dan

or to stop stones and gravel puncturing the core.


Any way, as you most proberly know, the pulser set up is fine at speed for stock power.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Not so good for a hot WRC event though, lol
But I bet they were making more boost than all the cars that beat them!!!

Just less power of course!

Fiecos Dan

did they use the same inter on WRC then?

MarkTurbo

Yeah

Interesting topic this, my boost gauge reads off the plenum at the moment but it would be interesting to see what boost its making before the intercooler!