wimwerf

i have ARP ones in my block. and that is for 50000km now. with 23psi (t-3). with a standard gasket. and the engine has now 226000km's. so why aren't ARP not reliable.

week bolts stretch to much and couse your gasket failure. to strong short bolts would crack your block.

all the (top) tuners are telling different story's. very annoying.

what bolts are the norway guys using.

cheers

Rs Gus

iTrader: (2)

i have a lovely new engine you can have for 3.5k biult with a new block and pistons etc

bbigman2000

I know mate, bloody bugger that I just bought a engine with 350 miles on it lightened and balanced etc, if Id have seen yours 5 days ago id have given you 3k for it no hassle,.

I hope you get it sold anyway, sounds like a good one, and fron experience, I had the choice of about 20 engines, but most were crap, yours will sell easy,

best wishes Glen

Rs Gus

iTrader: (2)

hence why i got a new one biult

cossiemanden

The guys in norway are yousing the arp`s off course...
My engine ( 450+bhp) my mates engine (593bhp) and a few 650++bhp are running std headgasket with arp`s and wire ringe`d block and are running fine for a long time now, no cracked blocks????
So why are the arp`s so bad????
The block will crack if it`s boored more than to 2` oversize, my old 205block did that wit grp.a. stretch bolts and 330kit, but my new engine with a new motorsport block, and arp`s std, headgasket, are running JUST FINE...
Many block`s crack because off the overboore, not because off the headbolts

bbigman2000

guess I was just unlucky my blocks standard, i.e has not been bored out

personnally I blame the coopers ring set up wot a lot of BS

Anh

Sounds like you either over torqued your head bolts and/or overheated your block. Cracks are a release of stress caused by heat.

wimwerf

kennert

Thought it was good reading till I got to the end of the thread................. there is no point in this thraed

I Was hoping to read; Use std. bolts or use cometic with std. bolte , or the combination, cometic and long studding!

Anyway, I'm thinking of using the cometic 3 lay and std. bolte!
Is that ok for max 350 hp ????

Cheers Kennert

bbigman2000

LOL yeh its always the way, nothing wrong with commetic and std bolts for 350bhp in my view bro, so go right a ahead.

Dean Saff

There doesn't seem to be a trend with any one setup? the only one that makes sense is -
to many conflicting stories.. people are to quick to make snap judements.
I had a problem a while back, My standard radiator was expanding spoke to a few tuners etc.. all said defo headgasket.. not convinced after testing myself changed rad for a pace jobbie 10k later still no probs with headgasket.. saved me time and money.

by the way I re-built mine for around 3k, 205 block, low comp pistons, Grp A gasket, standard bolts.. running stg 3 t34 22psi etc nearly 30k miles no problems as of yet apart from the rad Hope im not tempting fait...

darren.cudd

im using a cometic with standard bolts personally i gave up paying atention to pointless bitching threads like this a long time ago

imo, if you 450 or under then this way is fine

Less.

I blame the russians

Cant prove my theory right but you cant prove it wrong either

Dean Saff

LOL @ this theory...

Must be a conspiracy(spelling).....

Less.

Yes they send in micro spiders with lazers that carefully crack the block

Their other method of destruction of cossie blocks is to send in metal eating micropes which weaken ARP bolts

Could be wrong though

Ps not laughing at the blokes engine failiure just everyones theorys thats all

markk

iTrader: (2)

me too , more 200 blocks cracking than 205

yes phil WRC are very good , now how many people on here have WRC long studding ???

please post if you have !!



its not the bolt that are at fault its the application that are not always suitable !!


expansion and contraction mean anything to you ??

RANJ

i have full blown wrc long studding

Rab

I'm with him

markk

iTrader: (2)

how much was your water pump ranj ??

RANJ

no idea mate, i just payed for the liners,studding block all at the same time

markk

iTrader: (2)

so have u got pukka WRC stud kit ??

Cosworth4388

The point with ARPs This is only my crappy opinion is that the bolts are fine
now i would never use them to clamp the head down why??
I always thought that when the head got hot and expanded at a very slightly diff rate to the block thats what caused the blocks to occasionally crack as the bolts have zero flexibility?
Forgive me if im wrong

I got standard headbolts in mine 480bhp no problems
Oh and i used me cometic gasket again..

markk

iTrader: (2)

gold star my friend !!!!

RANJ

its complety studded, all work was done my mountune inc fitting the liners etc

markk

iTrader: (2)

pukka m8 !!!

thats the only way to use long studs !! all fookin 10 of them !!!

RANJ

markk

iTrader: (2)

so there you go !! you must be the only person to have done the job properly on here !!!

i'll prob get shot down in flames for saying that only using 8 is not properly done but hey , thats just my way !!! imo there are only two ways that are worth using for cosworth head clamping and that is one of them!!!

oh , and i cant believe your using liners !!! ( )

RANJ

propper nickasel jobbies, btw rods also using exact same bottom end

markk

iTrader: (2)

check the smilies out ranj !!!

ive no probs with liners what so ever !!!

RANJ

Ima-Racing500

Markkk...the theory is that the expansion/contraction causes the aggro..in my and many peoples experience it doesnt cause ant problems....so how you can diss a product is beyond me UNLESS every Cossie YB thats fitted with them crack the block ...Mine cracked with std bolts...BUT i wont say they are shite as they are obviously not and are quite safe..BUT on hi power applications long stud x 6 and outer 2 either end std is the way to go.10 are not needed and can cause other problems if the outer 4 are as tight as the inner 6!!!!!..Blocks only crack in the middle 6 area due to this getting the most force.

I use the above long stud method plus i obviously use liners always have again with no problems.....apparently my ones are no different in procedure to the nikasil installed ones,just a lesser grade metal...BUT its still stronger than the original bore metal...plus i can always re use the block in the event of failure.Liners are the way forward with WRC long stud particualary if you are like me hi comp for the power thats gonna be acheived.

markk

iTrader: (2)

nor mine !!

every block ive seen cracked has had std bolts im not saying the bolts are at fault for that


so from and engineering perspective , ive got 6 studs in the middle of my block pulling upwards from the bottom - with a tensile strength of x amount over the given length of what shall we say 18" ? so you buy these from mountune ok , but do they supply you with a bolt with an exact equal tensile strength with the same amount of breaking strain but in a 6 inch length - no they dont !! so you got to your local supplier of fasterners and he gives you a cap headed bolt , youve no idea what strain is on that bolt is

so how can you say that the 6 long studs are a good idea ??


oh right that must be where all these headgasket failures are going wrong then

so you dont tighten all your head bolts up to the same torque , you have to make sure that outer 4 are not as tight

nothing to do with themiddle of the block having the least support

Ima-Racing500

Markk

I am of course on about ARP's are quite safe as are std bolts.

As said the most force is in the middle so the breaking strain on the outer 4 does not need more than std head bolts which are renown strong enuff.

All bolts are indeed tightened the same...but what i mean is the outer 4 stretch more than the semi stretch WRC stud and nut

Middle of block having least support? Arent the engine mounts in the middle LOL......Obviously the middle 6 are the most vital to clamp

markk

iTrader: (2)

you do it evertime dont ya !!!


the problem with the arp head stud and nut kit is that they are too good for the application , the combo of iron block and ally head is all wrong to start with , so with differant rates of expansion and contraction , if you fit a bolt that wont allow th edifferant rates to occur then that is why you end up with a cracked block !!

Ima-Racing500

Markk....dont you think ARP would have done a little research into those theorys,to see how much of a danger that was???


I have only seen and heard of std with cracked blocks NOT ARP's which i have successfully used myself...plus the Scandanaviens rate them too...so the odd cracked block from using ARP's is most probably NOT the bolt more a installation fault...as people tend to do them up the same as the std stretch bolt and not using the ARP lube ...

Had you ever thought that if you dont do them up as tight (as per instructions!) then the bolt will not need to stretch like the std ones do.

marco polo

iTrader: (1)

one of my old engine had cracks around the same place ........then harvy built me a 400 bhp engine with wrc long studs/wrc gasket brand new ybp 200 block no signs of any cracking so far so they must be good

Ima-Racing500

Marco i take it yours uses the middle 6 WRC long stud and outer std 4?

As my block is a Harvey Gibbs WRC modded one from the Rainman.

markk

iTrader: (2)

Ima-Racing500

Ok Markk that line was wrong,after thinking about it BUT the rest is correct

Andreas

Phil, many of these big bhp engines are speced by the owner himself and not a tuner. They hear about ARP and how great it is and therefor buy it for their own car. I doubt there are many Scandinavian tuners with more knowledge than the UK ones. Off course we got some mad rallycross gurus over here but such engines doesnt share much with a road engine that should be built to last longer than a season.

Only time will tell i guess, not many keep their big bhp cossie for long periods so shall see in a few years if they crack or not.

/Andreas