lukeytheduke

Mike can you look at my post regarding rear strut bars. Apparently the way that it is connected is not too good,

a.k.a wrote:
it would be easier to have one made than try to modify the ones shown.

Just think about it, imagine if you hold one end of the bar with a pair of fingers then hold the other end in a similar way

Now move one hand up upwards in an arc, as if the shock is being pushed up (or even downwards for chassis flex) whats to stop that happening - nothing, the bar certainly does not, as it will just swivel at the other end.

You need another fixed point along the axis line of the bar to stop the upwards movement, an easy way is a bracket from the bar down to the boot floot, bolted down to the floor, either centally or better still one in each corner about 20cms in from the mounting point on the shock

Even better is a bar coming off the same place as the mounting point on the shock down to the centre point of the main bar, at boot floor level - then another the same at the other end, then another bar where these meet on the boot floor going striaght up to meet the main bar - fully triangulated then.

Is this true and can you supply something that does the job?

https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...asc&highlight=


Cheers Mike

Luke

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I see what a.k.a. is saying, but to do something properly would mean totally compromising boot space - and on a road car, is pretty pointless for the gains acheived (you're not chasing 1/100ths of a second lap time .

I run coil-overs and don't have a rear brace, but if I was to fit one, it would be just like the one that you are thinking about getting, which is just to stop the struts from moving towards each other (and thus changing the geometry) on hi-g corners.

Every little helps, it just won't prevent the up and down twisting forces - no biggie on a road car .

lukeytheduke

thanks for the reply mike, so i guess there is only one question left to ask...

Is it worth spending you hard ernt money on rear strut bar? Bearing in mind its 1989 rwd. This winter ill be getting coilovers, polybushes and strut bars, i was thinking of gaz coilovers due to the price and their name. Any comments on that??

Cheers Mike

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

You will definitely notice a reduction in the twisting forces from the rear by fitting one, so I think it is worth doing. As to fitting cheap coil-overs, you're wasting your time and money, the car will handle better on Konis with decent springs. Poly-bushing is a must, just don't change the rear trailing arm bushes (the rose-jointed ones), the OE items are far superior to poly ones (which is reflected in the price!).

lukeytheduke

are gaz coilovers any good mike?? so is it worth spending the 100 pound to strengthen through the twistys then?

U dont stock Philloy do you mike? if so prices on front and rear strut bar

Kelv

iTrader: (4)

Gaz are ok, but to be honest they are more of an entry level coilover.

ive just sold mine and will be going for the Leda's pretty soon.

Anonymous

...Mike cant have a rear strut brace as he needs the boot for the pram and bottles

lukeytheduke

so does a rear strut bar strengthen things up in straights aswell, like the front bar??

lukeytheduke

Leda's are the best part of a grand arent they?? Isnt there something a little cheaper??

Kelv

iTrader: (4)

yes they are, and the Gaz/Avo's are aprox half there price.

but you pay for what you get.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

if you've got a 2wd car then you won't feel the benifits as much as you would in an escos or 3 door beacuse of the big bit of metal that is sitting above the strut tops to stop the body flexing as much

if you want to stop things from flexing then, as sugested, get somethng to triangulate everything together, but this won't be practical or pretty (unles it's bling bling) really on a road car as you will have to cmopromise the boot floor

Anonymous

...are you foreign by any chance? ...i am not sure who you are!

Danny B

Here you go Luke,

http://www.adrenaline-race.com/forum...opic.php?t=392

theres pictures of whats on its way to you

Merry Christmas.

I believe Mike R directed Luke to me so I'd like to say thank you

Alan s1

Danny B Very nice anther thing on my shopping/wish list

PAUL S

iTrader: (8)

At last a rear brace available off the shelf that actually does something other than look pretty

only thing I would say is that for an extra 30cm or so of tube I would link the top bar to the base plate for even greater triangulation and flex resistance

dojj

iTrader: (3)

i know someone who's done that a few years ago, can't seem to find the pic but anyone who knows maddoldbugger (aka tony) will remember seeing them when he did his

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

No probs Danny, I always point people your way for things like this . When someone has one fitted (especially in an Escort ), could they post pictures up, so I can see how much it intrudes on boot space .

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

That rear brace looks like it will do a proper job

Taz

Would danny not be able to make you one which rather than bolt directly between the struts, but is offset to the rear of the loadspace to maximise bootspace? What I mean is have the tubing bent like some of the fron ones so that the centre mounting point is actually at the rear of the boot.

Just a thought.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

If it is not directly in the middle and in line with the top mounts, I would imagine that you lose quite a large amount of torsional rigidity...

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

So if i was to get one of these 3 point rear braces, one of Mike R front strut brace and the chassis bars, will my cossie handle reasonably well?

Taz

I get what you are saying and tend to agree however, The philloy front ones are always meant to be the strongest and they have a bend in them. Not a large one but enough that it does not go direct. If it was bent the right way I reckon the difference would be slight.

I wonder if this can be tested????

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

A brace might stiffen the shell but how would slight flexing of the struts towards each other affect the suspension geometry It will help the springs and dampers to work better though..

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Acceptably, but to get it perfect, you need the rear beam doing and adjustable TCAs to set the geometry up perfectly .

PLUS MORE CRUCIALLY, THE SEAT TO STEERING WHEEL INTERFACE NEEDS VASTLY IMPROVING!

Danny B

The position is dictated buy the guys at ford, the mounting bolts go right throught the rear cros member and act as 2 of the 4 that secure the rear diff support mount. this isn't actually center so I've had to offset the plate, The only other problem in an escort would be the spare wheel although most cars they wont fit over the front brake anyway. I could be made to fit but would be a little less efficient and look strange. If I get time i'll fit it in an escort and take a pic Mike

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

Fair point. i'll show you just how good i am in Peggy.

Danny B

mike was dreaming he had a WRC set up for a moment on the front with McPherson strut this is the case but as Martin says its to improve the body shell so your dampers work better on the rear.

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I was under the impression that ANY chassis flex changed the geomtery, so anything that stops this is good .

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

How will you do that as a passenger , or are we just talking sexually AGAIN .

Martin-Hadland

iTrader: (2)

The shell would have to move enough to allow a significant movement of the shock in an upwards or downwards direction to make a geometry change!!.

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

We swap seats and YOU become the passenger in your own car. If i can get within 5 secs of your time then you cant say that i need vastly improving.

Please keep your sexual antics off the board Mike. I dont like our special moments broadcast

lukeytheduke

HI Danny, the one in the pick looks good mate, will it be that colour though as im sure that isnt whjat we discussed on the phone??

Danny has been well helpfull and i will defo be doing business with him again, as soon a si placed the order he had his bloke make it up.

PICTURES to follow

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Luke,
If you read the post with the pictures in, they can be powder-coated colour of your choice . I changed your order to pink just like you asked .

Danny B

The pink does look rather good! gold could also be done mike

CossieRich

iTrader: (1)

lukeytheduke

Mike i hope you changed it to bright pink!

anyway, i recieved mine in the post before x mas, so that means danny b made it and sent it in 3 or 4 days, i cant remeber now.

Ill post it up when i install it.
cheers folks

Danny B

I do my best to keep a fast service and if there is delay I explain way

I got deposits for 5 braces so far so anyone else interested please contact me as I aim to have this batch done for end of Jan, I need comfirmed orders so I have enough material in stock.

lukeytheduke

Hi Mike, just a quickie, i seen in other threads about toe in issues, could you explain that as i seen on your website-Cosworth rear suspension shims, are these worth getting and what do they do.

Also i brought a philloy front twin strut bar, how does this bolt on to the turrets, do i need to just drill some hols and bolt them in or is there something that can optimise the role of the strut bar? e.g make it more effective and stronger??

Cheers Mike

luke

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

As standard the car is supposed to run parrallel from the factory, which when measured statically MOST Cossies do. HOWEVER, in forward movement, there is sufficient bush deflection that the wheels then toe out like this (both front and rear): \ / This wears the inside edges and causes the car to have some nasty fish-tailing lift-off over-steer.

The shims I sell give the car a small amount of static toe-in: / \ However, with bush deflection, this either gives the parrallel reading in forward motion or retains a small amount of toe-in which makes the car more stable in oversteer moments, as the car is always trying to self centre.

Unfortunately, the other 50% of wear is caused by the camber issues if the car is too low, or from squating under acceleration. The only way to remove this is with a fully adjustable rear beam.