Hi guys,

The next cosworth journey that I am about to undertake is the 400bhp+ engine. the figure is chosen as a benchmark. Slightly over is fine, slightly under misses the point.

I had a fascinating chat with Chip and a couple of others at the last WSM meet, and I want now to refine my shopping list of bits, and stuff so that I can work my way to this target.

To keep it simple, questions are posed as follows. Further info is below...


1. What work needs to be done to the head itself? internals below

2. Standard cams up to the job? If not, any recs?

3. What valves, and what followers?

4. The block currently is 200 block, mahle pistons (std comp), +0.5 oversized to be sure, all fully balanced bottom end. Runs cometic 3 layer gasket with no trouble.

5. Turbo is currently T35. Proposing to change for a T38, as per chat with Chip and Doug.

6. Fuelling will be from the newly acquired Group A pump. What about regulator - does this need anything? Also which injectors?

Once I have the engine essentially built, I will prob take her to one of the tuning chaps for a live map, which it will clearly need. Anything else I have missed?

Thanks all in advance!

 

what makes you want to stay with standard comp?

 

 

Truthfully, it began with the belief that it would make a more driveable package at the end of the day, though now it is also partially led by a reluctance to bin the existing pistons until I have to.

Am I misguided? If so, I can be persuaded to change the pistons.

JJ

 

you can skim the pistons to lower comp..

costs buttons

 

Not sure I would want go that route - sounds like it could lead to trouble!

So is std compression and 400bhp not sensible?

JJ

 

The exhaust currently installed is the Magnex that follows broadly the original system (ie splits then rejoins) with the 3" tailpipe (if relevant).

The manifold is the original 2wd, which I was led to believe was the best option?

Ref Management - I have an S8 that I may use, or possibly a L8. Either way, it will need to be live mapped.

JJ

 

is the engine being fully stripped/or just head off? if the latter pistons can HANDLE the power your after,standard cams with standard followers,T34 or as stated T38,bit of porting WOULDN'T go a miss,400 or 403's injectors I'd go for the latter or even some Siemems! there HAS been a few with standard comp with 400+!!

send a pm to Tiff!

 

 

This is problably the cheepest option to get it to about 400brake, and still drivable, so go for it

 

Engine has to come out for rings, but that wasall i wanted to do to the bottom end.

Agree with porting - chip said the same. I have a spare head, so the plan is to prep the other head, then put on when ready.

JJ

 

I have a completely standard engine and head fitted with a UT T38 and a Swedish 'style' plenum. Live mapped on L8 with Siemens 83lb injectors by MSD. Made 397bhp on Alan Jefferies Dyno Dynamics rollers

 

Impressive stuff! Given that the engine has to be taken to pieces anyway, I dont mind doing what needs to be done.


JJ

 

i have a UT t38 but it's on a well overspecced engine to be honest.....making 450ish bhp now,so it's pretty much on it's limit.a T34.63 will do 400bhp,so don't discount it totally.

if i were you i'd go for a ported head (Karl does a low lag stg 1 head that is very very good,i had one on my last cossie)

i'd get the standard pistons pocketed as you'll be changing cams (although these probably won't be wild cams,but it's a good mod to do in case you go for lairy high lift cams in future)

greys will be fine,L8 would be a good option to get a good smooth economic drive

 

Thanks for that Martin, very informative. Interesting point on the pocketing of the pistons - this would be relatively easy to acheive. The guys I do the work with would be able to do this pretty easily.

INteresting what you say about the porting. To be honest, I would prefer to do the porting with my guys that I work with locally only because I can be more hands on, but will need some help on specs if anyone knows.

JJ

 

mine done 403bhp with t34 63 and greys but because it was at well lane it dont count lol

 

did a engine for my mate a while back and he had a totally standard bottom end, pair of bd10s, ported head, t34.63, greys, 10mm plenum spacer

that made 412 bhp

 

a live map from karl (or others) will give you a real 400bhp on .63 t34 on greys or above on std pistons (not even oversize for extra capacity ) and cams

 

no headwork on that?

JJ

 

Sounds pretty solid! How do you find the car to drive in normal conditions?

JJ

 

low comp it

 

So which would be the better 400bhp car and why then - a std comp one, or a low comp one.

There must be advan and dis to each. Anyone care to venture an answer...

JJ

 

if u keep the comp higher it will make it more reponsive off boost and as ur only gonna run 400 bhp max it will be under no strain what so ever

 

a genuine 400 bhp will put alot of strain on a standardbottom end.

low comp it you will feel no diff in response.

 

if its mapped properly there will be no difference between high and low comp. and at 400 bhp there will be considerably higher cylinder pressures in a high comp engine. i would decompress it but its your choice.

 

AAAAAAAAAH one of the most talked about power outputs in recent months after the huge easily obtained 500bhp mark!

never read full post but heres my 2pennys worth on a genuine 400bhp motor................

i ALWAYS use 205 blocks, but not cosworth ones as they have always been thrashed to death.
try and get a low mile 2.0 pinto EFi Auto granada block/engine, i find 205 ones last longer for some reason?!

i always run standard 8:1 "or there about" compression style engine rather than low comp 7.2:1/7.5:1 on pocketed pistons due to the shyte lower end power loss, rather than a large port head go for a slightly re-shaped inlet and polished head, i find this keeps up good torque figures in the midrange.
for genuine 400bhp "on the cheap" you need BD10/14`s and verniers, setup is secretive and needs a profesional to set it up!
fueling needs (bosch 403) 4 xgreys or (webber 400`s) 4x light blues fed by a gpA Bosch (044) fuel pump
air supplied by minimum of a T34 with .48 housing running 24psi through a 4x4 intercooler or idealy T35 with same boost running .63 housing and/or 500style intercooler.

all above running the obligortary single pipe from turbo back stainless exhaust and free-flow panel filter or K+N style cone filter with cold air feed.

hope this helps!

 

well in my personal experiance i always run a re-shaped / ported head for any cossie engine spec but again a .63 T35 hybrid should run (HELD) 24psi and produce 400bhp on a well fuel`d (400cc/min+) healthy engine.


P.S 2 BAR is 29.4psi (14.7psi = 1 bar) thats a lot of boost for a turbo like that, expect a very very short life out of the turbo!

 

so the comp will be standard but is that using standard pistons or standard compression forged jobbies?

 

 

i run 28 psi, 8:1 compression, 660cc injectors, t34-63, bd10 timed at 115 inlet 110 exhaust (full lift)
must be close to 380 BHP

 

Wow - pretty comprehensive answer. A couple of comments though...

The car runs an RS 500 intercooler, but a MAgnex system that splits and then rejoins. I hope I dont have to loose this, as I am hugely reluctant to change this unless absolutely necessary.

Ref the cams - so standard cams are not up to the job then. As you say, the trouble is that you get into the black art of setting up cams.

Turbo wise, I was probably going to go for a TT T38.

thanks all for the input

JJ

 

think to get the best from a TT T38 you need head work, if your not going for this go for a UT T38.

 

TT T38 8:2.1 comp , 14s head work, greys, mahle pistons pocketed , 450 bhp very good set up for road use off boost and on, pulls like a train to the 8.5k limiter !!!!
stick to the comp or raise it, don't lower it !!!
T34 will give you 400 although its close to its limit...

 

Standard Head and cams wont do 400bhp.

Karl told me most would be around 360bhp.

with any cams more than BD10 the pistons must be pocketed.

Why the obsession with bhp? your car might make 400bhp but be about as drivable as a squashed slug!

 

mine is just under 400 bhp,

200 block
6.9.1 cosworth racing pistons
standard head
bd14`s
t4 hybrid
mongoose straight through
greys
still on level 1 ecu(not for long)
my head is on its last skim and my pistons aint pocketed and the bd14`s run fine

 

AGAIN NOT TRUE

 

cossie sean....you said you can run 400 bhp thru a 4x4 cooler??

would like to see this

with a t34 with a 48 housing?

double

 

mine made 429 bhp on the rollers.


standard engine, T4 and greys and mapped by Karl, 28lbs of boost..oh.. its flat out on the greys too,not too sure what they run out at.

All been built and used a cometic gasket.

 

well my cos has a tt t38,ported head and comp raised to 8.3,bd14 and standard cam which makes a nice responsive engine.Oh black siemens injectors swedish style inlet rs500 cooler etc.

i made 411 bhp on well lane so that doesnt count,right dicko?? but was only showing 26psi as the rollers werent loaded up enough,i normally run 30+psi.