dojj

iTrader: (3)

i'll wait till after the ps3 has come out then to see what the rest of the worl think about it as both a player and a games machine beforei take the plunge

but this now leaves us with a possible 3 different was to connect the telly to the console, vga, rgb and the other one that you don't get the lead with for the 360

i'll probably be bugging you with questions in a few days after i'v gone out and actually bought the 360 anyway

Fagin

So much bullshit and incorrrect information given here....

I'll see if I can help out with an explanation:

HD Ready means one thing and one thing only
The TV/Monitor can accept and display an image which is at least 1280 x 720, known as 720p. The "p" standards for progressive, which means the WHOLE image is displayed at once.

Other various resolutions available are:

480p
1080i
1080p

Whats the difference between 1080i and 1080p
Well the difference is the "i" or the "p". As said above the p relates to the ability to display the whole image at once, whereas "i" displays the alternative lines on once refresh and then displays the other alternate lines on the second refresh. This is why (if you have good eyesight) you can see the screen flicker whilst at 1080i.

Remember though the resolution is EXACTLY the same, so no more real detail will be available, but with any flickering that can be seen, the "p" image will look better.

What does the 360 come with and what do I need for the best picture
Now it gets a mine field......

First off the 360 can display a HD picture and a SD (standard definition - normal TV) picture out of the box. Various resolutions are available from the 360 in a number of different connection types.

What HD resolution does the TV need?

The most common used output res for the 360 at the moment is 720p, as nearly all the software is coded for that resolution. But.... the new HD-DVD add-on is just about to be released which means 1080p will be the preferred form factor for that type of use. Don't worry as the 360 will scale the res of either the game or the film to fit your TV.

For general use, I would say a 720p capable screen is fine.

Can you really see the difference between a 720p and 1080p image

In short yes! But this all depends on how big your screen is and how close or far away from the screen you are viewing and ultimately how good your eyesight is. General rule of thumb is the further the way you are viewing the less the difference will become noticeable and the smaller the screen you are viewing the less the difference will become noticeable.

What connections should I use or need on my TV

The 360 connects two ways to your TV for HD:

Component (three RCA plugs, red, green and blue)
VGA

Which is clearer or better?

Well since both of these are analogue connections they should be fairly similar, but it all depends on YOUR TV. No hard and fast rule, but many say the VGA connection gives a washed out image, others say it is more realistic and not saturated, most say the VGA image is sharper..... try it out.

What about HDMI and DVI?

These are digital connections for HD. The 360 does not have this ability at the moment, but will no doubt have it in the future.

So... come on what spec for a TV do I need?

720p minimum (both capable of vieing and native resolution)
HDMI or DVI sockets
Component in
VGA in

Personally, if you can afford it I would go to the next level if your thinking of buying a new set and get one that can receive and display natively a 1080p image (this means the TV resolution matches the 1080p requirement, so you get a 1:1 display ratio).

If I set my 360 to output 1080i and my TV will accept this will I see a difference over 720p?

Only if the software (game) is natively coded to display at 1080i resolution and the TV has a native resolution of 1080i. If both of these are not TRUE then the xbox and TV will just scale the picture (i.e. shrink or enlarge) to fit. Regardless of what others say, you will not see a better picture if these two points are not true against a 720p signal going in to a 720p native resolution screen.

Get a PS3 and it all changes again!

Phil,
You talk absolute bollocks at times (make that most of the time).... you have never seen a PS3 for real, so stop making jibes about it. Also you know no where near as much as you think you know about HD standards and what it all means so stop being a nob for once!

tonyk

The graphic card in the PS3 is not as powerfull as the xbox 360 card, the easiest way to put into car terms, the PS3 has a 3.0litre engine and the 360 has a 2litre turbo which although 3 litres is bigger in capacity, it may not produce more power or torque. This site has a good article on it, although it can be a little technical in places.

http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?spage=1

HD has nothing to do with HDMI, Component or VGA, HD is higher screen res, ie 720p is 1268x720, 1080p is 1920 x 1080. The cables such as HDMI, Component and VGA are the means of sending the signal to the TV. They could still send the signal in 480p or standard resoloutions.

Anonymous

Fagin...you have just copy and pasted from another website exactly what i have wrote...so why not try reading and not hating

I know EXACTLY what you need for HD...READ not hate

Fagin

Yeah of cause I just copy and pasted it!

Anonymous

...and hey that graphics card is not as powerful as the 360.....you paid 1k for a unit when you could have got an XBOX 360 for 150.00

Anonymous

...to add 1080p will not really be a big deal here in the UK...its not likely Sky etc will in the near future run that or if at all.

1080i is fine BBC HD broadcast in that and picture is superb...would the human eye notice a difference with 1080p?..Once you eyes get adjusted to the very slight flickering it be as good

XBOX 360 will only see 1080p on the DVD add on thru the VGA connection too

Fagin

1080p will NOT be available through ANY analogue connection to a TV (component or vga) for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray if the software (film) creators encrypt with HDCP copy protection which ONLY works over a digital connection via HDMI or DVI. If you believe that they wont encrypt, your a bigger fool then I thought.

HD-DVD and/or Blu-Ray will surely replace the DVD format in the future.

MS know that the 360 must adopt a HDCP compliant digital connection in the very near future.

If you have the eyesight of a 90yr old then perhaps you won't see the difference between 1080i and 1080p.

As regards to that article shown about the 360 vs PS3.... I could show you a further 10 articles that state the opposite. Who cares.... I don't as I can play either. I will also get the Wii on release and that has graphics no where near as good, but it wont stop me paying for it and playing it.

Basically people have been sold down the river in reality...... many of the current crop of HD-Ready screens are already obselete as they will not be able to display a 1080p image..... which whether you like it or not it is the new kid and higher standard on the block. Whilst it may not mean a major problem now, over the coming years (and not too many) it will cause even more confusion and compatiability issues.

Anonymous

1080p is NOT needed unless you have massive screens and never will be adopted by SKY etc.....NOT until the anologue signal is cut which by then i will need a new TV..like most!!!

720p is fantastic and pefectly good enuff.

..as i said you need the VGA connection for 1080p if you moniter/tv can do that resolution...componant cant decrypt dvd's VGA can.....so it looks like you are the fool Fagin

Fagin

Phil,

Perhaps you need to upgrade the res of your eyeballs..... I never said anything about DVD I plainly said HD-DVD and BLU-RAY.... You TWAT! You best Google "HDCP" and actually find out what it means.

Agreed 720p is good and perfectly good enuff..... but have have stated 1080p will never be a big deal in the UK. Sorry mate, but your talking out of your arse. I bet you said that CD's would never catch on didnt you!

DUDE_SWEET_FRST

didnt take this long to turn into a ps3 vs 360 slanging match

pmsl at them pics, the 360 picture is fooking wank, are you sure it was a 360 and not a ps1 they plugged in

Anonymous

As we are talking HDTV i didnt think i had to say HD-DVD

Why you not READ?..I said 1080p wont catch on here until they switch anologue OFF..if at all...By this time majority will need a new TV....and by then 1080p sets will be as cheap as the 720p ones...You dont realise plonkers like you who buy tommorrows technology today are infact not getting a great deal xtra..i mean no point in buying those TV's yet IMO...look at it this way:-

1000 gets you a 720p TV

2000 gets you a 1080p TV

Come the time 1080p becomes the norm.....800 will get you a 1080p TV....i am quids in ROFL

dojj

iTrader: (3)

fook sake, i've just spent money on a new telly (ok, it's nearly 7 months old) but i'll be bollocxed if i'll go and spend another grand or 2 on a NE telly when the time comes

the old telly is sitll fine and wokring in the other house but bigger is beter

Fagin

Phil,
Are you as shallow as your discussion come backs!!!

Yeah Phil..... I had my first Escort Cossie years before you bought your cheaper one, so that means you got the best deal! You really are a bellend! If you have as much money as you portray, why are YOU bothered about a measly £1k?!

Dojj,
Hence my comment before that I believe the consumer has been stitched up. My belief is that the manufacturers knew what HD would mean and what the possibilitys were likely to be years ago. Their approach now has been to make the most money out of an item (by quickly making things outdated) that would traditionally last the consumer up to 10yrs. Lets be honest, the adoptors of HD-DVD and Blu_Ray know that many people will change TV's again to ensure the best possible medium to display their uprated image on.

They have us by the balls.

Anonymous

Once again you will not see any difference in quality between 1080i and 1080p unless you have a BIG screen...not many have so it wont matter

Fagin i was clearly stating i dont need a higher resolution than i have now...once i need a new TV most of em will support 1080p for no xtra cash

To add i am talking about purely TV's as for gaming i have a 1080p LCD moniter/TV

stonehavencossie

Fagan it appears to me like you have jumped onto this thread to attack everyone good natured advice and opinions. And, that cut and paste job was just a bit ridiculous.

1080p will not be an issue for any of us unless your willing to spend 5k+

And as stated there will be very little source material for it anyway for a good few years.

As regards to the ps3 v 360. Bang for buck you just cant beat the 360 especially with its 5 star live service. It is yet to be proved that the ps3 is any better. Software developer are struggling big time with it but im sure it will come into its own eventually. Lets just enjoy the fact we will soon have 2 fine consoles on the market

dojj

iTrader: (3)

so where can i buy a 360 for £150 then?

Fagin

stonehavencossie,
You seriously think I cut and pasted that!!!

Sorry to disappoint you but I didnt..... in fact you find anywhere that has been cut and pasted from and I will give you my 360 and PS3!

I havent attacked anyone and only had jibes with Phil as he does talk out of his arse.

Not sure where you get £5k from for 1080p..... sets are readily available 42" (LCD) for around £2k.

stonehavencossie

5k for a good one (i do know my tellies)

Attacked maybe a strong word. But you were a bit head first.

And.............. hands up if you think that was cut 'n' paste

Fagin

Like I said find the proof..... which don't exist.

Some people do know what they are on about you know and are quite capable of constructing a post with clear facts. I only did it to help people out and now you are saying I copy and pasted it.

About the £5k 1080p TV's.... which ones are you referring to.... as I can get a number of prices off the net (respected sellers) for the latest Samsung and Sony Bravia's around that price of £2k. Are these ones you refer to 24ct gold or something.

The NEW Sony 1080p KDL46X2000 LCD can be had for £2.5k and thats a 46" whopper!

The NEW Samsung 1080p 46" LCD-TV LE46F71B can be had for £2.1k and again thats a 46" whopper!

Westy

iTrader: (1)

Fagin

as you own both, which one would you say was the better console?

Im still tempted to buy the Xbox 360 as I played Moto GP the other day and its wicked but always had Play Stations...

Anonymous

...but Fagin a 720p 50inch can be had for 1k...1080p is NOT needed anytime soon mate...as i said by then they will be 1k and you will be buying a TV for SuperHD

Fagin

Phil,
Sorry... DLP screens are old technology mate! I wouldnt buy one of those screens for someone I hated, let alone for myself!

Westy,
Too early to say..... technically I think they are both on par with each other tbh in reality. The 360 has had a head start and the PS already has an installed consumer base.

Personally I think Sony dominance will not be as straight forward this time round.

What should you buy now...... I would say the 360 at the moment. It has more software available NOW. Just to highlight that, even though I have a PS3 sitting there I have been bashing Gears of War on the 360 all week..... awesome game imho. Don't get me wrong, the PS3 is an awesome bit of kit, but until they get some good games coming out it's hard to judge.

Obviously the pics do none of the images justice in reality.

360 vs PS3


Controllers


Blu-Ray Image


PS3 Menu


RR6 360


RR7 PS3


RR6 360


RR7 PS3

Paul J

Fagin;

Is not having HDMI and converting analogue more of an issue quality wise than the 720p/1080i/1080p debate?

I thought all forms of HD had to be transmitted over HDMI to allow the content protection?

Thanks, Paul.

Fagin

It is certainly "a" issue, but not "the" only issue. For the best connection digital is always the preferred option, but analogue does seem to be fine in reality.

Hence my point earlier to Phil about HDCP. Whilst HDCP is only available over a digitial connection (HDMI or HDCP enabled DVI), it is an agreed copy protection system that is instigated by either the broadcaster or the software provider (in this case film company). It is not mandatory, but a choice. There is some debate on how many companies will make this mandatory..... but if it isnt being used now, it surely will in the future. Several film companies have already stated they will use it, but others have not confirmed yet.

This leaves the 360 in a situation that it WILL need a HDMI connection for HDCP HD-DVD content. Some confusion on the net concerning this as some think that will be impossible on the current 360 hardware, whilst others seem to think a firmware upgrade will cover it (and appropriate lead). MS are not divulging any REAL information about it.

Anonymous

How are you connecting the 360? ..There is no colour..maybe turn it to the same setting you did the Playstation.

Fagin

Phil,

VGA - but I suspect it's a photography issue.

Paul J

Ah, thats interesting.

I could not watch high def (well upscaled dvd) on my philips screen without a snowy screen appearing every few minutes but a firmware update has solved that now.
Using a Samsung player it was present on all DVD's so must be something Samsung have included in thier hardware.

Fagin

Paul,

People report those issues for encryption problems. But your on normal DVD, so sounds strange.

Paul J

Normal DVDs but upscaled by the Samsung HD860, only happened in 720 or 1080, 546 or whatever it was, was fine.

Telly is the Philips 9830, this was the problem and update solved it

BM08

nice pics fagin, got anymore from other games on the ps3? that resistance game looks really good

And is it true that the ps3 can have true 1080p unlike the 360 which cant? and why is this possible? enlighten me

Fagin

I have resistance, but have no pics yet.... will take some over the weekend and post.

The PS3 has 1080p output and supports 1080p native software (either games or films).

360 now has 1080p output (since a recent firmware update), but this is only available over a analogue connection at present. No games exist that I am aware of (but the Sonic game is rumoured to be the first) that exploits 1080p natively. Resolution wise (and progressive scan wise) BOTH machines are capable of running 1080p software.

Anonymous

Fagin..if i conected xbox via vga lead which then adapted to dvi-d would that be pure digital then?

Westy

iTrader: (1)

cheers for the info Fagin

I can get hold of Xbox 360's with firmware installed.. cheap but am going to hold out for the PS3.. prefer the controllers

Fagin

Phil,

VGA to DVI is possible, but as far as I am aware VGA to HDCP DVI is not possible. Hence the problem that is being banded around the net about MS may have with the 360 now.

As regards to being pure digital.... yes it will be a digital signal, but I would doubt the quality would be as precise as a native DVI signal (purely from the fact that is is being converted externally again outside of the 360's internal conversion).

BM08

Well your not going to be bored on cold and wet days are you

And im looking forward to some more shots

By the way, looking at that 360 controller, it looks as if it could be uncomfortable to hold compared with the ps3 controller? anyway the ps3 control is one of the best console control ever made(thats a fact or so ive heard) and im not surprised it hasnt changed from the ps2 version as it was so good and comfy, i think the only change on the ps3 control is the fact that its wireless now?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

to resucitate an old post (rather than report ) i can only get sound through my rgb connection, no picture
the only way i can get a pic is plugging it through the pc port in the back of the telly

hitachi 42hd telly

is this a setting issue or is there a problem with the leads?
the pc port just shows black and white but it's a good sxreen, just no colour obviously

so, anyone know how to tweak the telly to show what i'm hearing?

please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please
pretty please, with suger on top