one more bias pedal box q lol (and pics for sibster ;))
08-09-2006, 08:08 PM
#1
one more bias pedal box q lol (and pics for sibster ;))
reeet, i got this wilwood bpb off mike - dangerous reyland for a bargain, and then got the cylinders of gracie
as it stands i have the .625 cylinder in the middle and the .70 on the right, is this the correct way for them to be mounted or should itbet the other way?
i was talking to somone toherday and they said it should start braking on the rears first, and then the front.
how i have it tho it doesnt, it pushes in the middle cylinder before the right hand one...
is that right?
and for sibster, this is what i failed at trying to explain the other day - see the big washers, i added them by the clevis pin pivots as there wernt any, and now there is a 2mm gap if you pull them across, but i read in the rally design catalogue that it should be no more than .25" of an inch, which is 5mm
as it stands i have the .625 cylinder in the middle and the .70 on the right, is this the correct way for them to be mounted or should itbet the other way?
i was talking to somone toherday and they said it should start braking on the rears first, and then the front.
how i have it tho it doesnt, it pushes in the middle cylinder before the right hand one...
is that right?
and for sibster, this is what i failed at trying to explain the other day - see the big washers, i added them by the clevis pin pivots as there wernt any, and now there is a 2mm gap if you pull them across, but i read in the rally design catalogue that it should be no more than .25" of an inch, which is 5mm
08-09-2006, 08:11 PM
#2
Re: one more bias pedal box q lol (and pics for sibster ;))
Originally Posted by fudgeass
reeet, i got this wilwood bpb off mike - dangerous reyland for a bargain, and then got the cylinders of gracie
as it stands i have the .625 cylinder in the middle and the .70 on the right, is this the correct way for them to be mounted or should itbet the other way?
i was talking to somone toherday and they said it should start braking on the rears first, and then the front.
how i have it tho it doesnt, it pushes in the middle cylinder before the right hand one...
is that right?
and for sibster, this is what i failed at trying to explain the other day - see the big washers, i added them by the clevis pin pivots as there wernt any, and now there is a 2mm gap if you pull them across, but i read in the rally design catalogue that it should be no more than .25" of an inch, which is 5mm
as it stands i have the .625 cylinder in the middle and the .70 on the right, is this the correct way for them to be mounted or should itbet the other way?
i was talking to somone toherday and they said it should start braking on the rears first, and then the front.
how i have it tho it doesnt, it pushes in the middle cylinder before the right hand one...
is that right?
and for sibster, this is what i failed at trying to explain the other day - see the big washers, i added them by the clevis pin pivots as there wernt any, and now there is a 2mm gap if you pull them across, but i read in the rally design catalogue that it should be no more than .25" of an inch, which is 5mm
08-09-2006, 11:12 PM
#7
Originally Posted by fudgeass
both push rods are level with the back of the pin housing, is that ok to do, and then just adjust the bias by turning the balance bar??
At the moment I cant see what stops the bias bar from unscrewing itself during use though 
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09-09-2006, 08:03 AM
#8
plumb it all in, as martin says, the placement on the cylinders themselves don't matter
once everything is in and bled, you should be able to sort out how much braking you want, and then adjust from there
can you not mount the adjustment in car, ala F1 types for example?
can't see the pics so i don't know what the balace bar looks like
once everything is in and bled, you should be able to sort out how much braking you want, and then adjust from there
can you not mount the adjustment in car, ala F1 types for example?
can't see the pics so i don't know what the balace bar looks like
09-09-2006, 09:00 AM
#10
Advanced PassionFord User
Dan,
Looks spot on pal, but the clevis's themselves look too tight on the centre pedal barrel..ive never run a pedal box with washers their, i'd adjust without the wahsers personally the 5mm of movement is to prevent the pedal barrel binding on the clevis's...
The actual location of the M/C's dooesn't matter,as Martin says just plumb up the relevant cylinder to the corresponding brake circuit...
I've never ever have the rears in first even with a gravel config you would still have a front bias...IMO that's very dangerous unles you want to arrive at the corner backwards....
As Tonys says fit and bleed them up wind the bias to the front and if you can't get sufficient brakes to one circuit make small adjustments to the rods, but the majority of the adjustment should still be possible on the bar iteself...
HTH
Ian
Looks spot on pal, but the clevis's themselves look too tight on the centre pedal barrel..ive never run a pedal box with washers their, i'd adjust without the wahsers personally the 5mm of movement is to prevent the pedal barrel binding on the clevis's...
The actual location of the M/C's dooesn't matter,as Martin says just plumb up the relevant cylinder to the corresponding brake circuit...
I've never ever have the rears in first even with a gravel config you would still have a front bias...IMO that's very dangerous unles you want to arrive at the corner backwards....
As Tonys says fit and bleed them up wind the bias to the front and if you can't get sufficient brakes to one circuit make small adjustments to the rods, but the majority of the adjustment should still be possible on the bar iteself...
HTH
Ian
09-09-2006, 12:54 PM
#11
like sib said thefronts 1st then back the force will go to the less restrictive cylinder ie the front as its smaller i diametre than the rear i rather play with cylinder sizes than have a balance bar thats not parrell
09-09-2006, 08:30 PM
#13
if you don't have 2 seperate lines front and rear you won't be able to do this
what they do do is produce a reducer type thing so you can reduce the pressure to the rears, but thats it, nothing to inscrease it (unless you ift 2 setups to the fronts, but i'd not like to think what would happen on the road if you had a nock
what they do do is produce a reducer type thing so you can reduce the pressure to the rears, but thats it, nothing to inscrease it (unless you ift 2 setups to the fronts, but i'd not like to think what would happen on the road if you had a nock
12-09-2006, 09:28 AM
#14
cheers for the replies guys, just got back from holland lol.
Sibster, i put the washers there to do what you said about stopping the clevis binding on the balance bar housing. there is about a 2mm total gap
as for the bias valve, i was going to get one of those too, and put it in line with the rears as there will be seperate circuits for both the front and rear brakes
oh, and a hydraulic handbrake lol
Sibster, i put the washers there to do what you said about stopping the clevis binding on the balance bar housing. there is about a 2mm total gap
as for the bias valve, i was going to get one of those too, and put it in line with the rears as there will be seperate circuits for both the front and rear brakes
oh, and a hydraulic handbrake lol
12-09-2006, 11:08 AM
#16
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Bias should be towards the front brakes, obviously, but I do believe that rear brakes should bite first for braking stability - I don't know where I got this information from though.
12-09-2006, 11:15 AM
#17
Originally Posted by ON-UJAH
Bias should be towards the front brakes, obviously, but I do believe that rear brakes should bite first for braking stability - I don't know where I got this information from though.
Tony, how much, if they are very cheap let us know lol
12-09-2006, 12:35 PM
#18
https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=220938
Ł35 posted comes complete with unions and is therefore ready to fit.
Ł35 posted comes complete with unions and is therefore ready to fit.
12-09-2006, 12:58 PM
#20
Advanced PassionFord User
Originally Posted by fudgeass
Originally Posted by ON-UJAH
Bias should be towards the front brakes, obviously, but I do believe that rear brakes should bite first for braking stability - I don't know where I got this information from though.
Tony, how much, if they are very cheap let us know lol
When you get the box in and working...wind all the bias to the back and try it at lowish speed with plenty of room....
Glad your all sorted now pal...
Regards
Ian
12-09-2006, 01:03 PM
#21
Team HOTHOT!
Originally Posted by sibster
Originally Posted by fudgeass
Originally Posted by ON-UJAH
Bias should be towards the front brakes, obviously, but I do believe that rear brakes should bite first for braking stability - I don't know where I got this information from though.
Tony, how much, if they are very cheap let us know lol
When you get the box in and working...wind all the bias to the back and try it at lowish speed with plenty of room....
Glad your all sorted now pal...
Regards
Ian
Don't do what I did and do it at silverstone tho
12-09-2006, 01:03 PM
#22
i wont name names lol
i know what you mean about the bias lol, we had a fezzer rally car for a bit and while on a top speed run at brunters i nailed the brakes on at about 120, the rear end locked up at about 80 and i found myself going rather sideways rather quickly, after shitting myself and wondering how the fook i didint bin it or roll it, i wound on yet more front bias lol
had alread wound on a fair bit so was very supprised when the back end locked up
and so were my pants
i know what you mean about the bias lol, we had a fezzer rally car for a bit and while on a top speed run at brunters i nailed the brakes on at about 120, the rear end locked up at about 80 and i found myself going rather sideways rather quickly, after shitting myself and wondering how the fook i didint bin it or roll it, i wound on yet more front bias lol
had alread wound on a fair bit so was very supprised when the back end locked up
and so were my pants
12-09-2006, 08:13 PM
#27
Originally Posted by sibster
Originally Posted by fudgeass
Originally Posted by ON-UJAH
Bias should be towards the front brakes, obviously, but I do believe that rear brakes should bite first for braking stability - I don't know where I got this information from though.
Tony, how much, if they are very cheap let us know lol
When you get the box in and working...wind all the bias to the back and try it at lowish speed with plenty of room....
Glad your all sorted now pal...
Regards
Ian
12-09-2006, 10:22 PM
#28
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There's a difference between bias, and which bites first!
AFAIK the rears should start braking a split second before the fronts, it helps brake stability. Dan was told this too from someone else.
AFAIK the rears should start braking a split second before the fronts, it helps brake stability. Dan was told this too from someone else.
13-09-2006, 06:17 PM
#30
when the fronts do most of the braking, why do you want the rears to start first?
what happens if you are going into a corner and the rear end bites first?
you'll be doing twirrly motions and shitting your pants, and i'm sure dans had enough of that lately
what happens if you are going into a corner and the rear end bites first?
you'll be doing twirrly motions and shitting your pants, and i'm sure dans had enough of that lately
13-09-2006, 09:35 PM
#31
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Well I can see nobody believes me, or the other guy that Dan talked too...never mind.
Maybe you'll believe it if it comes from a well respected technical source, like this:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/master-brake2.htm
Maybe you'll believe it if it comes from a well respected technical source, like this:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/master-brake2.htm
13-09-2006, 09:46 PM
#33
dan, a bias pedal box replaces the servo assisted unit in all modern cars, not ideal for a road car that is useddaily as you need to apply a lot more pressure to get the brakes to work as there is no servo assist.
benifts are more precise pedal feel, no fade, adjustable between front and rear bias
and they look good
benifts are more precise pedal feel, no fade, adjustable between front and rear bias
and they look good