xr4x4rs

iTrader: (5)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/sierra-coswort...QQcmdZViewItem

Lo@der

iTrader: (8)

Not a moondust saff though is it?

xr4x4rs

iTrader: (5)

well no lol



but bet it still shifts

Pete.W

I'm still trying to work out if its real or not

Fast Guy

The Cortina the engine came from was running 11s (on a V6) if it's the same one I've seen at York. He was looking at upgrading then to a V8.

JohnnyB

thats going to go, when it was in the mk11 cortina is went well, fucking well

Fast Guy

This is the V6 (turbo/nitrous'd/ supercharged) from the Cortina

R4N SS

iTrader: (6)

i see spadge is the highest bidder

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

Just a bit OTT

Steve.

MWF

Awesome.

Isn't the lad who owns it called Ian Walley?

Bungle

Thats what i was thinking there's nothing like selling a saff to buy a saff lol

Stavros

Cool as fuck, but huuuuuugely over complicated.

Thats the trouble with twincharging is that there is countless amounts of bullshit talked about it, esp on the internet, that people invent there ultra complex ways to make it work, ways that just arnt needed.

MWF

Sounds about right. I'm sure I saw posts somewhere by the Cortina owner, he was having some real headaches with the compound charging. Of course everybody knew how to do it better

I really admire the effort that's gone into that engine but to me it's proof that you can't beat going down a tried and tested route.

Anonymous

Awesome stuff i reckon, nice to see something different, even if it sounds like it doesnt work very often, lol

Stavros

Its remarkably simple, but everyone is under the impression you need a bypass for this, and a bypass for that, and this and that and the other is a restriction, all kinds of shit.

And you dont, but fitting these bypasses will make the car run proper wierd, and to fix it they just fit more of them, and so on

I mean FFS, that car has twin T2s, not only do they have internal wastegates, but there are external wastegates too

The car has FOUR inlets It seems the supercharger sucks air from somewhere (god only knows where ) and the turbos blow into the engine past the standard throttles that are placed AFTER tha charger.

Theres also some bypasses and shit on the pipes just before the charger, inc an actuator (could be more hidden in there, who knows ) controlling some kind of bypass on the boost pipes too.

Cool as hell, but the most complicated for no reason thing ever.
Well it is for a reason, the strange way the car was put together!

TurboBlower

Certainly is Ian Walleys Cortina I have a vid clip of a run somewhere ???

By the way chaps the Cortina was Road Legal and Insured on Classical Insurance for less then £400 a year i believe!!

COSSIE CAL

looks a weird setup and confusing engine though.sand paper belt for the charger? that charger looks like it was off a tractor lol why the external wastegates if the t2's have internal??

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Steve, what should he have done?

other than just buying a proper big V8 in the first place!?!?

Rob

could u imagine tracking down a boost leak on that

blower is of a Jag V8 BTW eaton M112

COSSIE CAL

the engine looks alot cleaner now to when it was in the tina.

TurboBlower

& Vid if it works ??? Crap quality but if you listen tells you the time i think an 11.62 ??



Regards - Adi

Anonymous

Single turbo into the supercharger, then on to a throttle.


Without all the other crap.

Anonymous

WOW 11.62!

Thats nearly a fifth of a second quicker than my mates FWD corsa on road tyres with no turbo and no supercharger and only 2 litres


So much effort, for such terrible results


Still an awesome project in a quirky kind of way though

Rob

I would think turbo -> throttle -> supercharger would be preferable as other wise with atmos at the inlet of the blower you have boost perminately at the butterfly creating alot of heat. Can do it that way just need largish BOV or bypass

Anonymous

Either way will work TBH and both get done often (the throttle before or throttle after the charger i mean not the compound charging bit of it)

Done my way though keeps the turbo spinning more in this instance, so less lag when you boot it again.


I havent tried it though, so im purely speculating.

Stavros

Very simply-

Airfilter-Turbo-Supercharger-Intercooler-Engine.

No need for a bypass, people just think you need a bypass in that setup cause of the common rumour that the bypass thing on Delta S4s etc are for full boost, wheras they not, its for off throttle situations.

You can run a 2nd throttle just before the supercharger and a charger bypass for off/light throttle situations (best to use a re-springed external wastegate for that) to help drivability, but not vital.

If you run it with throttle before charger only it runs horrible in twin charged situations it seems.
If you run throttle in natural place on the inlet manifold and run no bypass it drives fine, but does make the throttle plate bloody hot when running off throttle! (and the charger more whiney).
So best to do both, but if just 1 throttle, leave it in std place.

Neither the turbo or the supercharger is ever a restriction as such so no need to ever bypass them on the move.

Got to make sure charger is big enough tho, not huge, i just mean not too small for the engine, same as a turbo but even more so, as if they dont flow any more than the engine natuarally can, they pointless really and wont produce any real boost.

Stavros

Cut n paste from an email a clever person sent me once...

Initially I ran it with just a single throttle body at the blower intake, an intercooler feeding the stock EFI plenum, and no bypass. It was pretty horrible actually.

The large combined volume of the intercooler, pipework and plenum caused terrible drivability problems, especially during gear changes. De-clutch, and back off suddenly on the throttle and the engine RPM took forever to drop. It felt as though it had a ten ton flywheel on the engine, quite disconcerting actually.

Also at constant speed light throttle, the blower acted as a large vacuum pump sucking furiously against the just open throttle. The blower was noisy, ran hot, consumed power, and increased fuel consumption about ten percent when driven carefully.

Hmmmm. So the challenge was to fix it, and a whole series of ideas were then tried. The bypass was the first thing to be added. I used a Garrett external wastegate, simply because I already had one, and this has proved to be ideal.

Choosing a suitable spring is an interesting compromise. It needs to be stiff enough so that boost pressure will not force the valve off its seat and create a giant boost leak. It also must be light enough that engine vacuum can hold the bypass fully open at idle and light throttle. The main feature to look for when selecting a suitable wastegate is a large ratio between valve area, and diapragm area.

As an example if you want to run 15psi boost, and you expect the bypass to hold fully open, say above 10"hg manifold vacuum (- 5psi), you would need the diaghpram area to be at least three times the area of the poppet valve. This might be a tall order, four times the area would be better, or even more if you can find or adapt something suitable.

If you have to buy new, the Turbonetics Deltagate has an area ratio of about 4.6 , or the larger and slightly cheaper Vortech Mondo blowoff valve also looks pretty good from pictures, but I have no idea of the actual internal dimensions.

With the bypass installed the blower was far happier at light throttle, and the fuel economy came back.

Next I replaced the original throttle body back on the plenum down stream of the roots blower, and connected the throttle cable back to this. The throttle body on the blower intake was permanantly held fully open. This was all purely experimental.

The results were actually quite good. Drivability was restored, and everything worked fairly well. With a boost gauge up stream of the throttle body the boost readings were "turbo like". At light throttle the bypass was open and massive amounts of air were circulating around through the open bypass, but with almost no boost pressure showing on the boost gauge.

As you slowly increased the throttle opening boost would rise as the bypass slowly throttled the escaping air. It worked beautifully, throttle feel was excellent.

Next I reconnected the throttle at the blower inlet so it worked with the main throttle body on the plenum with a second throttle cable. This throttle was roughly synchronised, but was held open wider than normal at idle. As a result the throttle body on the plenum controls idle speed, fast idle, and so on.

The throttle body on the blower intake is open far enough to allow atmospheric pressure through the blower and intercooler to the "main throttle body". Just as with a turbo.

Now the interesting thing is that when you go to change gear at wide open full throttle RPM, both throttles snap shut. The throttle at the blower inlet greatly limits the airflow into the blower, and hence the airflow requirement through the bypass is reduced. It totally eliminates the small boost spike that had existed with only the upstream throttle operating.

So, the throttle on the blower is only a rough gross air intake control. It does not need any critical synchronisation adjustment. As long as it is open far enough at idle to not be a restriction, and be somewhere near fully open at full throttle, it will be fine. If it is large enough, it will not be an intake restriction even if it does not precisely fully open at max throttle.

The blower bypass modulates the boost upstream of the main throttle, and of course the main throttle body is what controls engine output torque directly, with good feel and precision.

All of this is a bit long winded I know, I must apologise. But it is difficult to explain in few words. It works superbly and is so easy to set up.

Later I fitted a four throttle body inlet system, that offered even crisper throttle response than the stock intake system

MWF

Chip wasn't Ian a member of Cruiseboards? I swear I remember you and him discussing his nitrous system?

SPADGE

Do you really think i was bidding on it to buy the shed of a shell?
It was the running gear i wanted as i need something to play with
Bought a BMW now so just wanted a project of some sort to keep me amused