frog

Posting for a friend of mine, very strange story indeed...

A year ago, his car caught fire, the cost of repairs were then estimated to be £8K, car was worth £10.
The insurance company decided to repair the car, despite Mike saying he didn't want it repaired.
Now, a year later, the car is finally back on the road, it has gone back once already for minor adjustments, and Mike hasn't yet officiallyaccepted it back from the insurance company.

Yesterday, he went into a car dealership to trade it in for a new car and the HPI report came back with - you guessed it:
"CATEGORY A - THIS VEHICLE SHOULD NOT BE ON THE ROAD".

Obviously, the dealership won't take it as part ex. and Mike is now left (if he accepts the car) with a worthless car altogether, who will ever buy it.

He is considering going to a lawer to take the insurance company to court over this for several reasons:
-I believe that a CAT A should be crushed, may well be a case of criminal wrongdoing by the insurance company here.
-He now has a car that is not worth any money.
-The vehicle may be unsafe to drive (he has two young kids), while it wasn't crashed, the fire could have caused stress on metal parts. There may be some civil liability involved here.
-He's had to lease a car for a year while his was being unsatisfactorily repaired.

Does anyone know if he really has a case ?
Has the insurance company done the wrong thing ? Committed a crime even ?

Your input would be much appreciated.

BlueSmoke

Wow which insurance company is this?!

frog

Not sure, we didn't talk about it, but I sure as hell will find out

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

why did HE had to get a hire car,surely they would have supplied one.

He should have been payed out but the insurers have the right to fix it if they wish.

it should have not got catogorised though imo.

hope he sorts something out.

might catch fire again.

Zetec Andy

Cat A

I wouldn't even entertain driving it! has it been inspected by the DVLA?

First thing would be see citizens advice.

saphycozzie-adz

iTrader: (10)

didnt think cat A could be repaired at all

RichardC

as far as Im aware cat A must be destroyed by LAW ?

if its damage/repairable it should be another catagory?

Im using ? as Im not 100% sure of my facts, but it sounds a tad dodgy to me

Rich

Zetec Andy

Category A

A 'total loss' e.g. burn-out. The only value is the scrap metal.

The vehicle cannot be safely and economically repaired either by the insurer / motor trade or by an enthusiast using cheaper parts and reduced labour costs and there are no economically salvageable parts.

Alps Pacino

my mate bought a crx years ago and when he came to sell it, an asian(nothing racist intended) lad came round giving it all the speal and being a bit of a tit basically, and then said the car was worthless as it was a cat b(his mate at keighly trade centre hpi'd it for him)

So the fact he was a tit and keightly trade centre are renowned for there dodge dealing he kindly told the tit "back round your own end2 etc

Anyway it came back as a cat b which is nice

SPADGE

If its been categorised as a Cat A write off then they owe him the full value of the vehicle at the time they inspected it and it is their scrap!
Tell him to call them and give them an ultimatum to either cough up or he will be suing them

RichardC

it seems that its 'advice' and 'discression' for the insurers to repair vs scrap, I cant see any reference to law, having said that, read this
http://www.ukmotorists.com/insurance%20write%20off.htm

it so happens it uses a £10k valued car as an example.

If I find anything else I will post it up

Rich

GOT2BZETEC

Cat a breakers only normal ppl cant even get to see them really cant understand wtf has gone on!

cupra20vt

What has probably happened is the car was inspected at the bodyshop and the engineer wrote it off. The bodyshop probably a week or so later has been back in touch with the insurance company saying they can repair it for £XXXX amount. The insurance company probably said ok as the second figure the bodyshop quoted would have been less than them paying out the customer.

Tell him to leave the car and dont sign anything. Also get the original engineer to inspect it, also the AA or RAC.

Dan

Definately a wrong doing by the insurance company mate! Would seek legal advice against them for sure....

RichardC

definately get legal advice, especially as if it is back on the road, its value will be between 0 and 7k and not the 10k it was worth prior to the accident.
(based on the assumption that any damage/repaired car is only worth up to 70% in value to a non damged/repaired vehicle)

GUZZLER

iTrader: (3)

cat a & b should not go back on the road, as said cat a is normally burnt out, driven off a cliff etc, cat b is to be broke for spares only.

Rich_w

Im not sure I would of hired a car for that length of time before asking them why it was taking so long.

Lambchop

iTrader: (1)

my saff cossie that was written off due to fire was cat B i think? it was classed as salvage only

Jayen4

Hmm,something dodgy here !!

I would tell the insurance company,to either remove the category classification,or you won't accept the car back,at all !!

However,if your not happy to drive the car,knowing the severity of the damage,don't have it back,full stop !!
If you tried to buy a Cat A car from the breakers,they would be after you,no doubt about it....... Sounds like 'Lawyer Time' to me...

frog

It took a long time because the insurance company was trying to blame the fire on the manufacturer, and it took months for this to get sorted. Then the car was repaired.

Thanks for all the advice , deffo sounds like he's got a case, he never wanted the car back in the first place either...

frog

Most (but not all) insurance policies (inc. fully comp) will only provide a car if the accident wasn't your fault, write off or not, read the small print.

If it's not your fault, they claim the cost off the other company

dave cos4x4

iTrader: (5)

would have been cheaper to buy a run about.

frog

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing... This thing went on and on and on... when the light was at the end of the tunnel, it was just another train.

He really thought this was pretty much sorted until the HPI report came back

TrickyDicky

if the insurance company are repairing the car then it shouldn't have anything recorded against it anyway, they only record when its a TOTAL LOSS, ie they have paid out value of the car-in this case there repairing it so nothing will be recorded against it.

frog

I am a little confused when you said "it shouldn't have anything recorded against it".
Is that only in the case of a CAT A or B ?
Surely a C or D is recorded

BlueSmoke

It only gets categorized if it's actually written off, I think.

Rossco

As said above, a cat a car can only be bought by a regestered breakers yard and has to be crashed end of. A cat b car can be broken and have parts sold but the shell and id must be crushed.

There is no way the general public can buy either an cat a or car b car. Are you sure they defo said it was a cat a and not it was just a writeoff and the school kid sales man did not know what the foook he was chatting about.

Good luck in threating an insurance company too, we still have an on going case where 2 insurance have foooked up and neither of them will admit to it!

Tony @ Greenlight

Hi Frog,

Without the FULL ins & outs of exactly what happened it's going to be hard to give specific advice, but i'll do my best to give a general view.

Firstly, if a vehicle was worth £10k and had sustained £8k damage most Insurers would have written the vehicle off. It varies from Insurer to Insurer but in the main, they usually write cars off at 60% (ie. £6k damage for a £10k car).

The classes of write off are as follows:

A (The worst) - Vehicle must be crushed to a cube, not even available for parts. Cannot be re-registered.

B - Vehicle may be broken for parts only, cannot be re-registered.

C - Damaged/Total loss, but may be repaired, re-inspected by engineer/mod'd & can be back on the road.

D - Uneconomical to repair, which is usually light damage but if an older car (ie. £1000 XR2i, with a damaged wing costing £600 to repair to an insurer). Can may be repaired, re-inspected by engineer/mod'd & can be back on the road.

From what i've seen system wise at Insurers, it is practically impossible to put a category A or B vehicle back on the road. So, i'd get your friend to do a HPI check himself prior to pointing any fingers, or initiating action against anyone.

He will then have the date that the vehicle was written off & by whom (ie. his Insurer) upon the HPI record, which will also act as evidence if required.

If it transpires that the vehicle is listed as a category A vehicle, call the repairing Insurer immediately and ask for either the claims manager or customer service/complaints manager. Explain the situation to them, as if a Cat A the vehicle should never have been put back on the road.

Should things not progress as your friend wishes, he also has a recourse via the complaints section of the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS).

Then, finally you could involve a solicitor.

What is more likely is that your friend requested to retain the vehicle, the vehicle was taken to a garage of your friends choice and the Insurer paid on a 'cash-in-lieu' of repair basis. Which then puts the vehicle as a Category D, or C total loss.

However, your friend would have to have been advised by his Insurer that this (ie. total loss/cash-in-lieu) was happening at some stage.

Kind regards

Tony

Tony @ Greenlight

Frog,

Another course of action would be to call your broker (if you have one), they should help you sort this.

If you're direct, you'll need to do the leg-work yourself.

Just for curiosity sake, who is the Insurer?

Kind regards

Tony

frog

Tony,

Thanks for the input, it is nice to have some information from someone "in the know" and I am not even one of your customers

He showed me a document printed off the web with the www.hpi.co.uk address at the bottom

That's the wierd thing, since day he has asked NOT to have the car back, but the insurance company have insisted on repairing it

It would appear this was not the case, or, if it was, he wasn't informed of it in a crystal clear fashion.

I will try and find out for sure

Thanks again

Tony @ Greenlight

No problem buddy..

Wish your mate well from me.

If you want some more input, just let me know..

Kind regards

Tony

Micky The Finn

what sort of car is it?

frog

Hyundai 4x4

frog

Now, the insurance company is claiming that the CAT A recording isn't their doing Mike is the first owner of the car, it couldn't be CAT A before he bought it, WTF is going on

What is the process for a car being recorded and hpi being aware of it ?
I would have thought the insurance company informs DVLA and job done

Tony @ Greenlight

If Mike's the first owner, unless its a DVLA error. Other than the Insurer im not sure how else the vehicle would be registerred as a write off?!!


What is the process for a car being recorded and hpi being aware of it ?
I would have thought the insurance company informs DVLA and job done [/quote]

I'd get him to check the HPI, call them and ask HPI specifically who put the "category A" onto their register.

If it was your Insurer or an agent of theirs - call them immediately (as per my prior post on this thread).

If it was DVLA - call them and request they remove as is an error.


Let me know how you go.

Kind regards

Tony

Damo V

As above I would imagine ha now has to pay for a HPI check, then get onto HPI to see who and when it was recorded... (they may not speak to him about it right now as he hasnt paid for the check) OR the DVLA should be able to tell him surely...


He is in a whole shit of trouble here (Not least because he drives around in a Hyundai) but if plod ever do a straightforward PNC check, for whaever reason! they will give him all kinds of grief over it as the car was declared unroadworthy and cat A, and in the put back on the road instance, would more than likely be a ringer..... Infact I wouldnt be suprised if he got plod knocking on his door next time he taxed it!!!

frog

Thanks Damo, that makes a lot of sense

frog

For those who want to know who the insurance company is....

It is an RAC policy underwritten by Hastings Insurance.

The insurance company is claiming an admin error and are trying to get the categorisation removed... We'll see...

John Laverick

Well at least they’ve admitted their mistake!

It's Czech Mate

I used Hastings a few years back and my gf did, they were excellent on both price and covering my gf's claim