Jim Galbally

OK,

Now DIY "tuner" i am not, however i find this stuff all very interesting and i'm all up for having a go. now, i've now got aftermarket management Emerald M3DK to be exact, and the basemap supplied is VERY rich, its 12.5-13.5 AFR just about everywhere.

sofar i've adjusted a few loadsites that are used for cruising on the motorway, getting them down to 14-15AFR so its a tad better than it was but i want to go abit further and make some more of the load speec cruising stuff run a bit better. please note i have no detcans etc. and i havent been touching the ignition map. i'm just going off a wideband AFR gauge (LC-1 + XD-1) but i'm not after playing with anythng other than the cruise aspects of the map.

anyway, here's the map currently (the red bits are the bits ive altered live, so they're producing about 14-15AFR) what do we all think sofar? i can see these red bits as big dips in the fuel map when you view it in graph form!


Clicky Link: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/06.../map110603.jpg

also i'm having problems with the closed loop. as soon as i enable it, it shoots up to rich (about 12 AFR) now the lambda and ECU are reading right, its just flooding the bugger, anyone experienced with emerald and got any thoughts? its as if its not doing what its supposed to do and putting in MORE duel instead of LESS fuel

Jim Galbally

ok, the pic resizer really doesnt help for stuff like this

Billabong

Jim, I thought you were getting Dave Walker to map it?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Jim,
Put a lINK up to the pic also

Take an AVERAGE of your adjusted figures and put them in the whole load line to give yourself a starting point. (Example, line 5 i would be trying a base figure of 45.)
Sadly, im going out now, but that should help a little...

Also, sounds like your lambda isnt working properly. Heaters work?

Jim Galbally

gareth,

mr walker is mapping it on the 10th, bt i'm interested in learning a bit about this up until then

stu, i can see the output (live) and it is working properly. if it drops below 14.7 it goes lean if it goes above 14.7 it goes rich. its just that closed loop doesnt seem to want to sit at stoich... lol i've emailed emerald about this so ll see what they have to say

ps edited so there's a link now

now ive taken 6 points out of those value on loadsite 5, so i've just taken 6 points out of 1500-3000rpm on that loadsite too
also ive taken 6 points out of the 2000rpm bracket too, as this is also the average of what i've done live.

sound about right?

i'm going to try this new map on the drive round the GF's

i'm also going to try and convince her to drive the car for a bit (we've on our way out for dinner) whilst ive got the lappy out

ps thankooo!

Rick

?

Rick

Jim Galbally


On ed2k, is there not a AFR target for closed loop? Most management has this (a target Map), it may not be set to stoich

cossie4i+

iTrader: (15)

Good Luck Jim

Hope you get it all sorted soon.

Steve.

GaryEvo

jim you need to map the system with out the closed loop first.

if the map is so far out of spec it may not be able to alter it closed loop

Rick

That too If the afr swings around, it means the feed back step is too fast - ie the afr is too far away.

Billabong

PMSL

Jim, I know it doesn't help you here and now, but Dave's book is well worth a read if you want to learn more - It's in the Haynes series, and is titled Engine Management.

Jim Galbally

ok, just got back in after a curry

missus wouldnt drive, but i got her to map with me shouting UP UP UP DOWN ENTER etc.

the bits i changed on stus advice are now muchos better, top advise there stu

ive now got a lot more of the low rpm low shrottle stuff sorted tho (apart from the bit thats now at 16.5:1 afr after the missus hit down instead of up and saved it into the fucking map

one thing i did forget was to hit READ ECU before i started, so now i got a map on disk full of 0s with just a few settings that i just put in gonna have to read ECU tomorrow and then save the file to disk so i can post it up hopefully itll be obvious which is the lean bit she saved in there by accident too

gonna have another crack at the analog wideband output from the LC-1 tomorrow too, as if i can get that working i can datalog everything with the wideband too, so thatll give all the info needed hopefully

Jim Galbally

and bill, i thought u were gareth "the hair" t from a quick glance at your sig!

Rick

Jim, does the car need a cat? if not, and she runs ok with 16.5:1, and it's a low load site - then u'll get some economy... U'll prob find will be better if u richen a tad.

Jim Galbally

rick, no cat. i've read that 15.3 is the optimum AFR for economy

ive just been reading innovative's website, and it sounds like my LC-1 has a dead DAC chip
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/f...ead.php?t=1950
looks like i'm going to need an RMA, bugger! that means i'm going to need to rip all the bloody wiring for it out (only 5 pins admitedly... lol)

mark_24v_wiring

iTrader: (1)

What you mean your gonna have to do it lol looks like ill be seeing you again soon then

Rick

Jiim - whats wrong with ur LC1? Economy is a tough one. I'm afraid (and i know this from hands on tests) that u cannot define economy at one afr for all engines. The change however, once u are bewteen around 15 and 18 is very small, and u are better suited to extracting the maximum seat of the pants driveability for ur engine.

scruffythefirst

There is a known problem with emerald and LC-1. Some of the older ecu's can cause the LC-1 to destabilise. Bill S should have a fix for it, and emerald know about it. New ecus shouldnt be affected.

Rick

that won't affect the sensor itself though, surely? More to do with the analogue output?

scruffythefirst

Apparently the ecu continues to work fine but the LC-1 crashes or something, not really sure. I've been assured the stuff I've ordered won't have the problem - not much help really

Best to talk to karl? at emerald as he knows whats going on

Jim Galbally

my emerald is a brand new one.

the problem im getting is that the LC-1 is outputting a flat 2.5v on the analog 2 signal. according to the forums this is normally down to a blown DAC (aparently theres no short circuit protection, and if they ever see a ground, theyll blow, so its not uncommon)

i'm going to try editing my analog1 output to wideband and seeing what that does, i'll lose my closed loop facility (which doesnt work anyway... lol) but i'll gain the ability tpo view the AFR realtime + datalog against it

thats IF it works
just need to re-charge the battery on the now flat laptop

had a crack at some cold start stuff thismorning, boy its hard if you dont hava clue what you're doing i'm leaving the ISCV open to 40% when cold, and correcting about +10% fuel for this at 1st the settings i had in thre were causing it to flood once you get it to about 45degrees its quite happy but starting from <10*C was a right pain in the arse!

Anonymous

Sounds like you are having a lot of fun there Jim


Personally i find it good to log everything on a run, then go back and adjust it based on the data log then have another go.

A lot simple for novices like me and you than to jump straight in and "live map" it.

Might be worth trying that, and then you dont need your mrs to help out either!

Jim Galbally

chip, thats what i WANT to do, but i cant datalog my wideband AFR reading at the moment only the narrowband one


hopefully that'll be rectified in a few hours tho

Jim Galbally

ok, sorted

Analog2 from my LC-1 is kaput it wont ready anythng except 2.5v

so, i've used analog as a wideband output and wired it into the wideband input on the ECU, after sitting there with a calculator trying to work out the rage value to input i've now got the ECU reading the wideband AFR live (ive lost my closed loop narrowband input, but this isnt being used at the moment anyway (plus ive got another lambda in the other exhaust i COULD wire in there if i cant be arsed to get the LC-1 fixed )

anywa, just did my first bit of datalogging at idle (with a few blips of the throttle) i'm sure i've cocked up my idle mapping thismorning whilst playing with the cold start


Clicky Link: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/06...1stdatalog.jpg

unfortunately exporting it into excel makes it go all wierd (all the values go wrong, i'm showing AFRs of 5-6 ) so if anyone wants to take a look at my data log after i got for a run, you'll have to install the (free) emerald software and load up the data log in emerald format

mark_24v_wiring

iTrader: (1)

Sounds to me like the easyest thing to do is wire the other oxygen sensor into the ecu fron the other bank Jim it wont take that long to do i think you have 3 wire ones so earth 12v+ and the wire to the ecu (pin 18 if i remember right)

Think im right but im sure someone will chime in if im not

neilm

Hats off to you Jim for having a go mate !!


You're 'out Boschmanning the Bosch-man' with the DIY !

Fair play keep it up !


Just hope I dont see a post that just says :-

'Bang '

Jim Galbally

neil, i hope not, thats it unless you can melt a standard nasp engine with a super-safe ignition and fuel on low load and low rpm

i dare not touch any of the load conditions

Rick

cold start is easily the harderst bit to map

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Excellent work Jim.

Some progress tips for you.

Get her fully warm and map the sites your interested in, buut make sure the 0 - 2000rpm areas are fine under all light and trailing, static and trailing throttle conditions.

Between 14.4 and 15.4 you will notice very little fuel economy difference, but you may gain or lose as much as 10% torque between the 2, and this translates to smoothness, so for now, id aim towards 14.4 if your not going to enable closed loop.

If you ARE going to enable closed loop, make CERTAIN your base map is slightly richer than lambda 1, for a couple of reasons im a tad too tired to type.

Cold start mapping is LAST.
NEVER adjust the base maps you know were correct when warm. Keep all adjustments within the cold running adder maps or you will be chasing your tail for days in between "Runs great cold but crap hot" & "Runs crap cold but great hot" LOL.

Now you know why i want the car for a week if teh customer wants his cold start and drive 100% correct.

Jay,

iTrader: (4)

jim as a trainee tuner myself pmsl i found that what chip says is correct in the fact that the car runs so get yourself a decent afr /rpm/tps/ logging equipment mate im seriouse when i say ive collected innovate gear as paper wieghts now got 2 lc1 brand new i might add slung in a rubbish bag in the garage so buy a tech edge or ziex one will give you all the details you need right there no conflicts even retards like me can use em , log it all then sit in front of the pc see lean point rich point at what rpm ect then reduce or enlarge them go out a try it


cheers jay

Jim Galbally

im just about to go and rey the one ive been fiddling with out lets see if it idles

Jim Galbally

dam i cocked that up i had it way too lean on warmup, now corrected. also way too lean when opening ISCV, i didnt realise just how much you need to correct for on that kinda thing

anyway it now idles ok (ie doesnt stall ) at 40degrees which is cold(ish) up to full warm

just did my 1st short run with datalogging, f**k me is it rich on WOT!

started at 900rpm in 3rd and nailed it, AFR shoots to 15 for a moment, then flatlines at 11.5 till 2500
it then sits between 12.4 and 13.2 up until 4500rpm then up to 5000rpm its abit leaner, in the 13s (peaks at 14.0 for a moment then drops down to 13.8 again) at which point i back off coz i was about to rear end a volvo

ps it took 10 seconds to get from 1000rpm in 3rd to 5000rpm, not bad really!

big_wig_074

nice work,would love to do this if(WHEN) i get TBs on the nova!
come a long way since the home made det cans eh jim?

Jim Galbally

ok here's an odd one for you guys... when starting the car from cold its a DOG. it'll ctch easy enough, but pop and bang its tits off (you'll need about 20% throttle just to get it to not stall and it'll pop pop bang bang (as if its mega lean or mega rich or something) after about 10 seconds it'll rev nicely and i can take my foot off the acceleratorand it'll idle nicely

any ideas? could it be the startup enrich table? ie its getting its value from this rather than the main map and after a while its swapping over the the main map?

its not as if anything really changes in those few seconds after starting so cant think what else it might be

rapidcossie

most cars with after market management are the same unless the mapper has spent alot of time on cold start, which takes ages as you have to keep waiting for it to go stone cold again.

My car takes a while to catch and then is rough for about ten secs but ok after that.

have seen tons of evo's scoobies etc with GEMS, autronic blah blah and almost all are the same.

rapidcossie

Another thing i have noticed since having the SM4 fitted is that thecar seems to heat up much quicker.

another thought about the starting prob is that most cars with after market ECU are heavily modified which lends it self to dodgy cold starts at the best of times


MY mates STI8 with GEMS refuses to start on very cold days..

not good for and 53 plate car

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Have you assesed the fuelling to see if it IS too rich or lean Jim?

Jim Galbally

no i havent atually stu, as i just jump in and turn the key and the heater on the sensor hasnt warmed up by then timorrow morning ill let the heater sensor warm up then start it and see what i get.

however i have notived before that if i set it so rich thats its missing, the gauge reads mega lean, so i was going the wrong way with the fueling

Jim Galbally

ok tried once thismorning and once on the way home, it reads LEAN when this is going on. (very lean)

also i noticed that the accell fueling seems f**ked when cold, when you apply throttle it jumps to lean (when really cold it jumps so far it misses) before going back to its normal 13-14:1 its FINE when warm tho(im putting in about 20% fuel i think from memory, as with 15% it was going lean for a moment, now with 20% it goes straight to where it should be when warm)

this is especially noticeable when stone cold and applying throttle quickly, stamp on the thottle at idle and it'll just stall

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Whatever figures you have in the Coolant Temperature enrichment table table now Jim, double em around the problem temperature site and start from there.

If it actually starts ok then leave starting enrichment alone, unless you have lumpy first 20 seconds problems, in which case, monitor crank/start fuelling and adjust that table accordingly.

Bear in mind, without an active ISCV you may NEVER get it to run like a factory car, as they need the extra engine speed to run correctly cold ideally.