Rod - I'm not saying any different.

However, surely the goal and the marque of the car have equal measure?

You wanted to do 200mph, and love Cosworths, so you did it in one of them. You probably could easily have done it in a Skyline if you'd have wanted, but you wanted to do it in a RWD Cossie..... That I can understand. The car has a performance pedigree, motorsport heritage, proper application of power through the rear wheels etc

I just don't "get" the FWD thing though - at least in your car, you claim to be able to use it on the road, and put the power down (obviously appreciating yo have to be careful with it) - in FWD, you are ALWAYS limited, except at the point where it doesn't much matter. It just seems wasted to have plenty of power and the inability to lay it down, except for at the top end, where you start approaching safety issues, and the almost impossibility of using that power on the road in FWD format.

Still, different strokes for different folks - personally I wouldn't want to do 190 mph in a Ford Fiesta. No interest whatsoever. You do. Well done.

I prefer my cars to go round corners fast as well, but if you didn't build your car or anyone else doesn't build theirs for that, then fair enough. I'm not knocking FWD application "per se", but it will always be trailing what COULD be done with that power in a different application. If that option is available, it seems strange not to take it.......

Oh, and as for the little "open your eyes and engage brain" remarks, even though it's unlike me, I'll ignore those, whilst I rest easy that that's one particular field I don't have issue with. I, however, cannot speak on anyone else's behalf

 

one of the reasons i want a high powered fwd car is something your missing pon

there safe


600bhp throw the front wheels mid corner is not good loads of understear but SAFE

600bhp throw the rear wheels mid corner well time to say goodnight

 

owning a vauxhall i get this alot because of the amount i have spent on my car and what i could have bought


but can you answer me why someone elses achievments has anything to do with what someone chooses to do to there car ??????

 

Good thread

Ive been helping Andy with his red bubble over winter.

I've designed and made a new inlet manifold for him, and he's now using a new improved nitrous set up, new intercooler and a few other mods which should see alot more power and torque this year

Lots of other things changed too

New rubber should see at least another .5 sec of the time, I reckon at least another 1 sec but Andy reckons .5, I hope the gearbox can take it

Andy should be seeing into the 700 bhp plus range without NOS but how do you measure such a monster?

AET are on with there wheel attachment dyno cell which should be completed soon so Andy will be playing on there for a bit, sorting out the mapping. (he works for them)

Been to see Ian Howell recently who is making slow but sure progress with his 2.3 chain driven Duratec Focus, Been helping him with a new inlet too

His car will be a monster when completed and will see 700bhp plus on pump gas without NOS.

IMHO there are only two people in the FWD game this year and that is Andy and Ian. They both have the right type of engines capable of delivering the type of horsepower for the job, 700bhp+

Horsepower = Good Times

Horsepower is all to do with headflow.

Without going into too much detail Ians is 180 plus cfm at 10" of water at .5" lift

Andy's is also similar by comparison

Anyone running a zetec engine, me included will be lucky to get over 150cfm due to the design of the head, (my head is done by the same person as Sunny's and Paul J's and has larger valves etc.). This equates to 500 ish, black top heads are better than silver top heads for flow, proven.
(Sunny / Paul no disrespect intended)

Jamie from Jamsport might stand a good chance as he has the ST170 engine which is a good base and can flow over 180cfm if fettled correctly. This should see over 600bhp + if speced correctly.

Traction is a major key factor with this type of power which both Andy and Ian have addressed correctly. (Big fat tyres from America).

Be prepared to see some interesting times this year, all for the better I hope

 

Me neither Rich but Sunny is MAD .

 

i found my erst very annoying for traction .. i was talking to mark about a huge power hike 4 years ago ..
but decided to have a car i could drive in the pouring rain instead ...
i just got bored of not having traction when i wanted it....

 

eh?! you serious? "loads of understeer" midway THROUGH a corner is safe how exactly?! if you're understeering and cross into oncoming traffic is that safe?

 

Rob - I'm not knocking what anyone wants to do with their car. If they have money to spend, and want to do something with said car for their own enjoyment, then you can't say fairer than that.

Can't see your point about FWD being "safe" in the slightest though.....

600bhp throw the front wheels mid corner is not good loads of understear but SAFE and SLOW

600bhp throw the rear wheels mid corner well time to say goodnight - WHY?

As much as you FWD boys harp on about "tempering the power", then the same must be true for RWD as well. What makes that unsafe?

 

Two things:

1) When you put too much power down in a bend on a fwd car and feel it understeer you back off and it behaves itself, in a RWD car if you are already sideways backing off doesnt just bring it back inline again, so it kind of is easier to drive FWD and get away with the occasional mistake.

2) Rob is used to FWD, and i think thats the main thing, whatever you are used to feels "right" to you and seems safer



Personally im pretty much used to fwd or rwd, so im fairly impartial, to me though, 600bhp in the wet is not a good idea with either.

Personally if i was after a car to drive fast in the wet then i would have a 300bhp imprezza or evo probably.

 

yeh i think its safer than traveling backwards into the same trafic


how many ppl have not been acting like an idiot has spun a fwd car on
the road ???

now how many ppl have been caught out by the spinning a rwd car in the same sort of not messing about way ???

i am sure more ppl have spun rwd cars with normal driving that fwd

 

I agree with sbd16v, its much harder to REALLY fook up in a FWD car

 

I agree with that - inherent understeer in FWD application will always be safer on the road, BUT that assumes that RWD is unsafe!

So many people who spin cars like RWD saffs etc do so because they're running on shonky tyres, 15 year old suspension, car's too low, limited driving skill etc........

Remember, in the grand scheme of motoring history, FWD is a relatively recent addition.......

 

A dodgy set of tyres is no worse than a patch of diesel on the road or some mud etc, i know good drivers in well setup RWD cars who have still lost it down coutnry lanes due to unforeseen circumstances like that when a FWD car would have got away with it.

 

that sums alot up really dont it

i am imo safe in my 400bhp + astra its a safe car and i can handle it

if i bought a rwd cossie i would not be safe and would not be able to handle the kind of power it would take to give me like for like performance on the road

and tbh i dont think handling comes much into play in on the road as you can only go as fast as you can see

 

Buy a 4x4 Cossie Bob , you know it makes sense

 

I left the track more times in a single day at bedford in a low powered 325i than i ever have on track in big power FWD cars, where i have only ever had a couple of excursions on the grass in 15 years of trackdays.

The reason?

rwd just encourages hooligan behaviour, im not safe in anything RWD cause im permenantly arsing about in any RWD car i drive, but in a FWD car its so boring in terms of what happens when you break traction (ie ploughing straight on) that with the exception of a bit of excessive "lift off oversteer" i always driven FWD cars far more in a way that promotes me having a chance of staying on the track.


Thats a big part of the reason so many RWD cars get totalled i think, cause sideways is fun

 

no thanks i like my gearboxes in one peice

 

The joys of 'lift off oversteer' eh Chip.

Pulled the Yoko 008Rs off the rims on my Mini after a few laps of the local roundabout

 

Exeter Street traffic lights = Mondy and A-Frame iirc

 

Good job you went for the stronger 6 speed then, how many F20s did we kill?

5 in 400 miles wasnt it?

 

i like to knock off one of the boxes as it brings down the stats so 4 boxes lasted me about 40 miles

one of them was just under 2 miles

 

I would like to ask what the hell was the point in wasting the time, energy and expense of putting boxes in you KNEW were going to break?!?!?!

I know you may have had a few cheap boxes and one that would handle the power would be more but what a complete waste of time and effort!

Or do you enjoy changing them? if so then cool

 

Had events to go to like coombe and the pod, and didnt have a stronger one to hand but we had lots of those knokcing about, between us we can do it in an hour no problem anyway.

We even changed one on my parents driveway for a spare one i had at my workshop when he broke one whilst he was visting their house with me

Disposable items, LOL

Luckily the 6 speed it has in it now is a LOT stronger

 

A good topic, I think the problem with most RST`s i see on here is they spend good money on an engine,turbo,chrome,wheels,exhaust and only recently proper uprated gear boxes. No real effort is put into the handling of the car or the ability to put the power down. If i was gonna build a car that had 400bhp going through a chassis originally designed for 132bhp then I would spend money on things such as:

Strengthening the shell, fully adjustable shocks, roll cage, every single suspension/geometry part replaced with uprated items, replace the old knackered steering rack, brake lines, corner weights etc..

The sad things is, most by a set of koni shocks, lower the car and fit 250bhp engine setup and a second hand set of bigger brakes and leave it at that.

I would dare say that a well setup 250bhp rst, with real traction of the line, gears optimised for the power and size of wheels used would destroy most 300bhp cars down the 1/4 using the "old tried and tested" methods.

 

so i think you mean its safeR than rwd but its certainly not safe thats for sure!

I cant begin to imagine what 600bhp must be like to drive never mind in fwd
fair play if thats your bag but stg3 cossie power will do me for now

 

Im going for a mere 300bhp through my fronts...


But then i have the shell to cope

 

A FWD car that I know of made over 800bhp last weekend on a dyno with 75bhp of gas.



Not turned up fully either yet. LOL

Can't say who it is but should be entertaining at TOTB this year.

 

800bhp is nuts!

 

Well done Andy N !

Oh well..........cat, bag, out

 

I know last week on there new hub dyno Andy Nichols Rover made low 500's off gas, but a lot more to come I'm told. The new setup up at AET sounds very good!

 

Interesting

Well, hopefully there'll be at least one FWD car that handles well in a month or so

Dave

 

Mate of mine has 400bhp on his Fiesta at half boost

 

Really? Who's that then? Mike?

Dave

 

I couldn't possibly say mate

 

Get your facts straight, the quickest R5, is Stu Clark at 11.4 running drag slicks but without nos, there is even a spreadsheet on RTOC with the quickest cars in the club http://www.rtoc.org/articles/article.asp?ArticleID=160

On road tyres the same fastest cars are doing mid 12's which still aint bad for a 1.4 pushrod engine.

 

Got to love th eold R5GTT

 

They are great fun, and cheap to tune, mines just a track car, got laguna 2ltr engine going into it as the R5 engine is just so behind the times now. It was a bit tight though N/A at the minute but will be turbo charging it.