ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Speaking as someone who understands engine tuning.....

If it is a known problem that turning the fuel pressure up could potentially
cause a problem then why was it turned up without advising the customer
of the potential problem ?

Surely, low fuel pressure on a car is a sign of an potential future failure
and any adjustment made is only masking the real issue.

Ginge !

i never ment YOU melted it,,,,,,, it would have gone at somepoint just that i feel that you MISSED a hint that there was another reason it could be caused


does low fuel presure not indicate there could be another problem in the fuel system like a leaking regulator/worn pump ect,,,,,,,, as i said i dont know so hence why i asked


you are NOT the sole reason if failed,,,,,,,, the pump was,,,,,,,,,, BUT checking it at the time could have saved a engine,,,,,,,,,, but if the AFR was spot on after then you wasnt to know


just is DID fail when not ragging it seriously,,,,,,,, we have not posting saying "scc set my car up and it melted cause they set the fuel presure wrong"

just that i feel you "could " have missed a hint that theres another issue

Ginge !

simon WOULD that give the impresion there could be another issue,,,,,,, remember that the car was running fine for a year and never melted when we thought it would have,,,, and it was just bad luck it had a failing pump when going SCC and there tweeking caused it to fail more


but would it not sugest another problem,,,,,,,,,, not to mention the reason for you to fit a fuel presure gauge on the new secs monitor when it comes out

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Ginge,
I could not possibly comment more without seeing the car myself
just adding my views.

(BTW The new monitor has fuel pressure )

The Rapid 1

Hmm

Well if was me i would have been asking what could have caused the fuel pressure to drop, to need turning up in the first place

Ginge !

then stop typing and get that dam montior done


my car will be finished sooner than i hoped as im gonna be sorting a engine for simon now and so i may aswell get the cossie done


the offer is still there to buy one AND test mule it,,,,,,,,, and any issues aslong as i will just ask about em and not use your name as slander as im seriously not a moany person

Rob M666SCC

How do you know the pump HAS actually failed

Ginge !

Well if was me i would have been asking what could have caused the fuel pressure to drop, to need turning up in the first place



mate i aint got a clue about techy stuff,,,,,,,,,,,,, i only know how to use a dremel, cold chisel and a club hammer im afraid

SteveB

iTrader: (3)

But.....

we aren't talking about a std FRST are we its a MFi block and MFi head with EFi management from a FRST and an external Cossie fuel pump, which had never had the pressure setup from the day it was put together (was going to put "thrown together" but felt it harsh ) so how was anyone to know that there "may" have been a pump problem????


Now had it have been a std FRST with std pump etc it "may" have pointed to a problem...... but how many posts have you seen over the last few years " which way to turn my fuel pressure up". Imo checking and adjusting the fuel pressure is just part of a tune up and I wouldn't start checking volts etc etc as Imo this isn't unless actually asked to do so


Just my 10 pence worth


Steve
Going back on the fence now to watch..... Tiff wheres them HobNobs

ECU Monitor Enthusiast

iTrader: (1)

Steve_B,

Fair enough didnt know that. accepted with grace.


Ginge,
Only one way to find out, take it apart, rebuild it and retest EVERTHING thoroughly.

Ginge !

that is a fair comment AND ive just got off the phone to simon whos asking me the same thing,,,,,,,,,,,,, he also asked about borrowing spanners cause he thinks it might be the head gasket as a memeber on here sugested starting with the basics

but fair comment,,,,,,, i AM jumping the gun,,,,,,,, it could have been a injector failing as they will need flow testing too,,,,,,,, just im going by the basics that low fuel presure and melted engine shows either presure reg/fuel pipes tp small diamiter ( remember this is a converted car thats normally carb powered so thats only fair to check too)


its the converstation you said about failing fuel pumps and people using xr2ipumps on there rst conversions that keeps bringing me on to thinking that

Ginge !

steve thats a fair coment BUT the fuel presure had NEVER been touched from the factory as rob can confirm,,,,,,,,, as that was hes reason to tweek it


BUT a check of why it could be low would feel a good choice imo


bit like turbo failing and fitting a new turbo and not checking the oil return or even the feed to test if its bloked

just change the problem and refit,,,,,,,,, hope you see where im getting


how long would a test of the failing fuel system take during the set up,,,,, who would refuse paying a extra hours labour if that was checked

remember thats the reason WHY it was taken in


as for the mfi engine converted,,,,,,,,, steve it worked FINE and never melted in 4k,,,,,,,,,,, NEVER melted in 4k and the only problem was the idle speed valve issue

SteveB

iTrader: (3)

Simon,

wasn't a pop at you or anything, just thought that everyone should know the facts that is't not what you'd call a std engine build....


The only way anyone will know is to rip it apart, find the problem and then look for the cause because atm its all guess work until the heads off the car at least..... So Ginge pop outside and we'll see you back in 30 minutes to tell us what ya found when the heads off

The Rapid 1

So are we saying it didnt have the whatever pump that was commented on that are always meant to fail, as Cossie ones aint renound for it are they

Personaly with the getting hot and smoking can say with personal experience that happens with head gasket, dont know if Rich still about, but do u remember mine the first time we met up the Pod

And the time when i finally killed my engine, couldnt see the A1 for mile or so lol, and that was just with slowing down, BUT what I did happen both times is it wouldnt start due to Auqa summit or other, basically bores filling with water from the system causing to much compression to even allow the engine to turn, but spose the "smoke" comming out the back (which smells) is actually steam from the water in the combustion, maybe lol

Edited (auqa lock is the thing I think )

Rob M666SCC

and to be fair you cant even be sure it has melted till the heads off.......

Ginge !

i can pop outside but the cars in essex,,,,,,,,,, i dont live near him


it wasnt a standard engine but the failure IS a normal failure and looking at what was actually touched hints to the problem imo


taking the head off is ALSO pointless as then engine is CLEARLY fooked,,,,,,,, take the head of to see that its melted number for is the same as the last time i said hes melted the engine as a garage sugested the valve steam seals need changing and sold him a set of them,,,,,,, even though compression on 2 and 3 was 30psi they said the steam seals where prob leaking badly




its fooked,,,,,,,, moaning aint gonna solve it and its NOT fooked just cause SCC touched the car,,,,,,,,,,,,,, they may have missed a bit though

Ginge !

rapid one,,,,,, theres cream for oil in the rocker cover and pouring out the breather when you turn the car over and its dark blue smoke ONLY and when you back of theres a HOOOOOGE puff,,,,,,,, started as a small puff and when its COLD the engine dont smoke straight away,,,,,,, but it starts and gets worse,,,,,,,,,,,,,, oh and it done this before and melted 2 pistions the same way


its melted on the outside of the pistons i belive but unless i can be arsed to take it a part to check we may never know



and cossie pumps DO fail

SteveB

iTrader: (3)

But...... if the regulator had never been touched from the factory it had been setup for an intank FRST pump and you have fitted an external Cossie pump so the fuel pressure would have never been correct from the start so would have HAD to be adjusted to get the correct pressure at some point to get a bench mark to work from....

FRST Fuel pressure 2.9 - 3.1 bar (43-46psi) with vaccum
Cossie fuel pressure 3.2 - 3.8 bar 47-56psi)withOUT vaccum

"Above taken from Autodata"

The Rapid 1

Actually to be fair (although no one other than Rob named names, probs cos he was happy he did the correct job) think u do now owe it to SCC to remove the head and find out what has actually happened

Also could not making the car run well, have caused a failing gasket to finally give and blow, that an old falicy with nitrous, aint the nitrous that damages an engine it just the engune isnt strong enough for the job in the first place

M Brian

what size are the fuel lines etc?

there isn't any mileage in it for example the return line is too small and upping the pressure could of affected pump performance at the injectors...

id be gutted in the same circumstances - but you have to look at it from the other side - its a converted car - NOTHING on it is known to be good by the tuner at the time.
Ok he had the money to do further checks etc - but before buying the actual 'service' of a tune up - was it discussed or even considered what he would be getting for his money.

when you ring the AA because you've had a puncture, he fixes it and then the wheel bearing fails - you don't go hunting the AA man down do you?

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Wow... what a cracking topic

Some points, if anyone cares, and in NO particular order...

1) For Ł60 i wouldnt even have checked the AFR with my wideband.

2) The COSSIE pump does NOT fail if you up the pressure.

3) Even if it wasnt a cossie pump, Rob upped teh pressure back to STD. I plainly said upping it from OEM caused the problem. Every time you show her boost the fuel pressure rises chaps

4) Why did the pressure drop? Well... was the cap missing from the top? If so, it dropped cos of an idiot fooking about is most likely. If it was untouched, probably simple fatigue. Its a simple spring in there, just as likely as an actuator to soften with age.

5) Mayo - check turbo? As SCC do and obviouisly you DONT know, its not uncommon for the core to splut and introduce water into the oil. The result can be a dead turbo and lots of oil in your water. Id have checked it too.

6) Mayo - Melted? It is NOT common for a dead piston to put mayo in the oil and im not sure why you all think it is? This is more commonly a headgasket problem, as SCC said at first.

7) I hope you like humble Pie if the fooking headgaskets failed.

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Hmm... i would be taking that head off right now if i was you Ginge... Its pretty fooking rare to melt TWO pots at once pal

big_wig_074

hydraulic lock? liquids being virtually incompressible and all makes this happen

The Rapid 1

dont know too much about all the others but deffo believe ya

But No. 6 deffo sounds right in my eyes

The Rapid 1

Oops yep that would be it lol
The word I did think I knew I got wrong, maybe I'd best just move along to the muppet room where my expertise would be of more use

big_wig_074

aqua,hydra,its all foreign!

Ginge !

stu that was the LAST engine that failed on the way bacl from central day racing me,,,,,,,, that DID melt 2 pistons


i seriously cant be arsed to remove the head i cause it is a melted piston,,,,,,, would rather just fit another as its quicker


and as said this post was to get ideas and NOT slag off SCC,,,,,,,,,, as id like to think im above that,,,,,, considering I recomended him to go there rather than to another place local to his house cause most of my mates are friends with rob and the rest of the crew including one of my closest mates hence why i never posted the name,,,,,,,,, now rob HASNT over charged us and so MAYBE hes setting up is in different stages,,,,,,, could even be he charged that as at the time there was soo litle that looked like doing,,,,,,,,,,, im NOT slagging him off NOR blaming him for ANY failure,,,,,,, just wasnt sure if low fuel presure would hint to check more that tweek the regulator,,,,,,,,, i remeber you checking my mates 3 door before stu and that had a fooked regulator,,,,,,,,,, aswell as other issues


60 quid does seem somewhat cheap too,,,,,,,,,,,, when i took my car to you stu the bill IN TOTAL comes to over 400 quid just in fuel and feeding switch ect on the way,,,,,,,, but i pay it as i like the fun drive


btw stu when the engine IS back in the cossie and i book my car in i would like you to add 2 hours extra labour checking that the engines not back to front ect,,,,,, as i would prefer for potental problems to be mentioned IF ITS POSSABLE TOO !!!!!!,,,,,,,,,,,, now after reading robs replys now it seems that he done what he could and dont check what others may in hes set up


so its simple crossed wires as to what job is what i guess

still cant be arsed to remove the head

M Brian

also... another hours labour on a Ł60 bill...... and no one would grumble?

don't know how much you work for - but an hours labour and overheads and i'd grumble if they said... oh yeah i've just checked this extra bit - we hadn't agreed to but the bill is 50% more now

xr2i-carl

I have had the same experiance before with the mentioned company my car went in for a new turbo and erst lsd box to be fitted.

came out the same day headgasket went
went back in for repair

on the way home from picking the frst up blue smoke billowing out everywhere

piston broke!!!

went back in for a full re-build i asked for forged low comp pistons to be fitted, came back with standard zetec pistons and skimmed to lower compression (zvh) annoyed me greatly as i specifically asked for FORGED pistons to be fitted at WHATEVER COST ( they said the forged ones are overpriced and these pistons would be up2 the job)

following a strict running in period it went back for 'setting up' a week later only to FAIL once again on the way home

was then rebuilt again FULL CHARGE TO ME after my car has broken so many times upon leaving this place on the same day and left runnin only 10psi boost from its original 15 it was running being told it will just BREAK AGAIN IF I up the boost. so why wasent i told this from the beginning to stop all the HEARTACHE AND WALLET BREAK.

all those rebuilds for nothing

i got to another 'ford tuner' who tell me that skimming pistons is the most stupid thing to do as it weakens an already weak standard piston

either SCC's equipment needs calibrating or maybe they need some more experiance

attitude was also, turbo engines are unreliable so get used to it

carl

Ginge !

sorry but on a set up i dont know ANYONE that goes there with less than 500 quid as theres ALWAYS a issue,,,,,,,,,, hence i told him to stop buying me birthday drinks cause i went with him to get its car set up on my birthday instead of spending it with the family


but tbh the WORST thing yesturday was the alt wire on me cabrio got cut on a speed bump and the AA didnt know how to wire it up and ust said the wires aint from the alt,,,,, ive jumped started you and the cars running now,,,,, enjoy


so there are WORSE things tha happen in life

big_wig_074

500 quid?for a 60 quid setup? fookin christ ginge,id take 60 notes and a can of coke!

Ginge !

"attitude was also, turbo engines are unreliable so get used to it "


must admit thats the part i wasnt a fan of,,,,,,,, but has to be said that wasnt a comment from Rob


after reading your post makes me think that a mule engine to die aint a bad thing,,,,,,,,,, i just liked being the one that bodged a engine that can beat me mates scooby P1 off the lights

Ginge !

na stu charges about 120quidish but when i was then i got sold a new chip to match my spec as mine was wrong for it,,,,,,,,,plus other stuff and we did go pub and the arcade cause jims car took a long time,,,,,,, for the record my car never took long and the bill was ALOT cheaper than the traveling fees


fuel economy going back was no the 50 to 70 miles to a tenner i was promised though ,,,,,,,,,,,,, but switch drove back and we NEVER went below 130 , we left at 530 and dropped max of AND stopped for fuel,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,TWICE !!!! and got a quick munch and still got switch home in time for his meal with his missus at 830pm





AND IT WAS RAINING

could feel the difference in the car though,,,,,,, seriously recomend it to anyone

big_wig_074

mind you,i did once take my car to scc for a check to see why it wouldnt start,ended up spending the thick end of 5 grand there! oh dear,those were the days,remember walking in with 3000 in cash to pay for a job! top work tho,NO complaints!

M Brian

speeding on the roads again in the wet??
ginge ffs - youre always ranting on about it being dangerous etc etc.... road clear all way back from blackpool at 5:30pm are they?

Rob M666SCC

Mmmmmmmmmmm Ok....


My word the two nightmares in the 5 years ive been self employed are in the same thread....

As i recall it (was some time ago !!!!)

I couldnt help that im afraid - batt's in crystal ball were flat
As i recall your Dad was paying and he wanted it back on the road a cheaply and quickly as possible - we removed the pistons (wasnt quite a full rebuild was it now ) and sent them to be matched up as ZVH's aren't our thing - the new ones were the same as the old ones as requested by your Dad if i remember rightly as the cost was MUCH MUCH cheaper....

As i recall YOU told us what boost you wanted to run....... it wasnt our conversion after all, i seem to remember the previous owner had all the work done before you bought it....


you paid for the parts only if i remember rightly- seem to remember it cracked a piston


Cause you wanted 15psi !!!!!!

I recomended you got it properly mapped if you wanted it to last !!!!

in the end your Dad told us to do what we thought best.... so we did.



You need to speak to the person that specced the engine im afraid....


Calibrated frequently......

We all need more experiance im affraid.... No one knows everything

Sorry if you got that impression

Rob

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

How events can differ from one mouth to the next

Rob M666SCC

Well thats my Dirty Laundry Aired....

Weve had over 10,000 cars in for repairs etc in the last 5years (well weve done over 10,000 invoices now....)

and weve had a very very small handfull of complaints - very low % so i hope everyone see's this pointless drivel for what it really is

big_wig_074

i have a complaint rob,its a bloody steep hill to get to the pub for a lunch when the car is in there,could you not move somewhere less hilly?and the junction to the road? try getting out of there at rush hour in a 400bhp cossie with no handbrake and a violent 4 paddle clutch!

Rob M666SCC

If i ever move i'll bear that in mind