Sapphire cosworth ecoboost??
26-12-2016, 12:39 PM
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Sapphire cosworth ecoboost??
Hello, let me introduce myself.. my name is Damian and I've been looking through this forum for a few years now but never became member as I found most questions answered through a good search.
Apart from owning a 2014 mondeo I am also lucky enough to own a sapphire cosworth..
i use the sapphire cos quick road use and the occasional track day... it's running dark greens and a t34 hybrid.... so around 330bhp. I am looking for more power as you do haha and was looking for around 400+ bhp
the problem is as as good as the Yb engine is.. it is an old design alhough a very good one and to get a reliable 400bhp with little turbo lag and decent fuel economy is very hard and very expensive..
so i was searching for crate engine and I came across the 2.3 ecoboost from mustang/ focus rs... it seems to be that you can get one of these engines for 7000$ plus the electronics to make it run.... it has direct injection and twin scroll turbo and comes standard with 350bhp..... plus it's lighter than the yb.. economical for a 350bhp engine and correct me of iam wrong but probably more reliable....
Question is how hard would it be to make in work in my sapphire??? My logic tells me it wouldn't be very hard but then again I have never done an engine conversion on my his scale before.
Also what gearbox could I use?? And also if I ever wanted more power what is possible with this engine without major work... 450 or 500 would be nice..
iam also worried about loss of character lol even though I consider my yb flawed as in turbo lag etc I do love the way it drives the noise and everything else that comes with what is basically a racing engine.. so how would the ecoboost compare to the yb ???
I would be great full if anyone could point me in the right direction and also recommend the man for the job.. anywhere in the uk would be fine... and also any drawbacks to the engine swap
Apart from owning a 2014 mondeo I am also lucky enough to own a sapphire cosworth..
i use the sapphire cos quick road use and the occasional track day... it's running dark greens and a t34 hybrid.... so around 330bhp. I am looking for more power as you do haha and was looking for around 400+ bhp
the problem is as as good as the Yb engine is.. it is an old design alhough a very good one and to get a reliable 400bhp with little turbo lag and decent fuel economy is very hard and very expensive..
so i was searching for crate engine and I came across the 2.3 ecoboost from mustang/ focus rs... it seems to be that you can get one of these engines for 7000$ plus the electronics to make it run.... it has direct injection and twin scroll turbo and comes standard with 350bhp..... plus it's lighter than the yb.. economical for a 350bhp engine and correct me of iam wrong but probably more reliable....
Question is how hard would it be to make in work in my sapphire??? My logic tells me it wouldn't be very hard but then again I have never done an engine conversion on my his scale before.
Also what gearbox could I use?? And also if I ever wanted more power what is possible with this engine without major work... 450 or 500 would be nice..
iam also worried about loss of character lol even though I consider my yb flawed as in turbo lag etc I do love the way it drives the noise and everything else that comes with what is basically a racing engine.. so how would the ecoboost compare to the yb ???
I would be great full if anyone could point me in the right direction and also recommend the man for the job.. anywhere in the uk would be fine... and also any drawbacks to the engine swap
Last edited by djpratts; 26-12-2016 at 12:45 PM.
26-12-2016, 02:42 PM
#2
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It would be possible but i would spent the money on the yb. 400bhp isnt that hard imo.
New modern ecu, twin scroll turbo on a standard rebuild engine will be awesome.
New modern ecu, twin scroll turbo on a standard rebuild engine will be awesome.
26-12-2016, 03:45 PM
#4
Turbo technology has moved in leaps and bounds since the cossies came out, imo it would be far less expensive to build a low lag 400-450bhp YB than to carry out said conversion, I had my old sapph live mapped at motorsport developments with their closed loop sofware and use to see around 36mpg on a steady run!
26-12-2016, 04:01 PM
#5
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
A good yb at 400hp should not give you any problem
And will last a very long time if it is respected.
And it would cost you far less than 7000$
That said in one of my other 3dr Sierra projects I am installing a 1.6 ecoboost
To be different and very light as the car will be super light ( hopefully)
And will last a very long time if it is respected.
And it would cost you far less than 7000$
That said in one of my other 3dr Sierra projects I am installing a 1.6 ecoboost
To be different and very light as the car will be super light ( hopefully)
26-12-2016, 09:05 PM
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26-12-2016, 09:19 PM
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Hello thanks for all the replies but iam still not sure about this... do you really think I could have a newly built yb engine with over 400bhp and the reliability of a modern engine for less than 7000Ł??? Considering that with the crate engine iam getting everything brand new.... injectors turbos cranks cams etc..... just a modern ecu and a low lag turbo such as a bw efr would surely be around 4000Ł Plus setup and someone that knows what they are doing with it..
in a year.. I've had my injector fail causing valve and piston damage by running lean... head gasket failed.... and my intake cam broke as the bolts had pulled the aluminum from the threads..... and my turbo is now being rebuilt....
the people I know with cosworths seems to be getting rebuilds every 10 to 15000km down here.....
has anyone really run a 400+ yb for say 30000 hard miles reliably with out the need for rebuilds?
in a year.. I've had my injector fail causing valve and piston damage by running lean... head gasket failed.... and my intake cam broke as the bolts had pulled the aluminum from the threads..... and my turbo is now being rebuilt....
the people I know with cosworths seems to be getting rebuilds every 10 to 15000km down here.....
has anyone really run a 400+ yb for say 30000 hard miles reliably with out the need for rebuilds?
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27-12-2016, 03:39 PM
#8
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Hello thanks for all the replies but iam still not sure about this... do you really think I could have a newly built yb engine with over 400bhp and the reliability of a modern engine for less than 7000Ł??? Considering that with the crate engine iam getting everything brand new.... injectors turbos cranks cams etc..... just a modern ecu and a low lag turbo such as a bw efr would surely be around 4000Ł Plus setup and someone that knows what they are doing with it..
in a year.. I've had my injector fail causing valve and piston damage by running lean... head gasket failed.... and my intake cam broke as the bolts had pulled the aluminum from the threads..... and my turbo is now being rebuilt....
the people I know with cosworths seems to be getting rebuilds every 10 to 15000km down here.....
has anyone really run a 400+ yb for say 30000 hard miles reliably with out the need for rebuilds?
in a year.. I've had my injector fail causing valve and piston damage by running lean... head gasket failed.... and my intake cam broke as the bolts had pulled the aluminum from the threads..... and my turbo is now being rebuilt....
the people I know with cosworths seems to be getting rebuilds every 10 to 15000km down here.....
has anyone really run a 400+ yb for say 30000 hard miles reliably with out the need for rebuilds?
27-12-2016, 03:57 PM
#9
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If you run 400 bhp with modern levels of torque then you need to consider a stronger gearbox if yours is 4x4.
400 bhp is easy on a cossie but not cheap. I think the eco boost would be interesting but would easily cost as much one in and running. I would stick cossie though
400 bhp is easy on a cossie but not cheap. I think the eco boost would be interesting but would easily cost as much one in and running. I would stick cossie though
27-12-2016, 04:47 PM
#10
PassionFord Post Troll
How do you know the eco boost will cope well with 400bhp?
27-12-2016, 07:13 PM
#11
So 6k for a 350bhp crate engine.
Then you have the problems
What gearbox it not custom adaptor plate custom clutch.
Custom engine mounts
Custom exhaust
Custom cooler and pipework
Will it fit?
All of the above mods will cost ŁŁŁŁ'S
Best solution is give scs Harvey gibbs your 6k and come away with a rebuilt engine and prob more than 400bhp.
And less hassle.
Then you have the problems
What gearbox it not custom adaptor plate custom clutch.
Custom engine mounts
Custom exhaust
Custom cooler and pipework
Will it fit?
All of the above mods will cost ŁŁŁŁ'S
Best solution is give scs Harvey gibbs your 6k and come away with a rebuilt engine and prob more than 400bhp.
And less hassle.
27-12-2016, 07:29 PM
#12
PassionFord Post Troll
I'd spend it on the yb I'd also consider how much it would devalue the car by changing the engine I understand this may not be a concern but if you ever did come to sell it I would think it would be a lot
27-12-2016, 07:49 PM
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If you run 400 bhp with modern levels of torque then you need to consider a stronger gearbox if yours is 4x4.
400 bhp is easy on a cossie but not cheap. I think the eco boost would be interesting but would easily cost as much one in and running. I would stick cossie though
400 bhp is easy on a cossie but not cheap. I think the eco boost would be interesting but would easily cost as much one in and running. I would stick cossie though
It was originally a 4x4 but has been converted to 2wd as I went through 2 gearboxes in a year plus i preferred the handling and fun on a rwd
27-12-2016, 07:51 PM
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So 6k for a 350bhp crate engine.
Then you have the problems
What gearbox it not custom adaptor plate custom clutch.
Custom engine mounts
Custom exhaust
Custom cooler and pipework
Will it fit?
All of the above mods will cost ŁŁŁŁ'S
Best solution is give scs Harvey gibbs your 6k and come away with a rebuilt engine and prob more than 400bhp.
And less hassle.
Then you have the problems
What gearbox it not custom adaptor plate custom clutch.
Custom engine mounts
Custom exhaust
Custom cooler and pipework
Will it fit?
All of the above mods will cost ŁŁŁŁ'S
Best solution is give scs Harvey gibbs your 6k and come away with a rebuilt engine and prob more than 400bhp.
And less hassle.
27-12-2016, 07:54 PM
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There is something very wrong with the way your friends engines have been built if they are having to be rebuilt after such low mileage. A well built Cosworth YB if looked after should last a long time. My engine was rebuilt in 1996 at 51,000 miles with a brand new wire rung 200 block,BD 10 & BD12 cams,group a head gasket, new low comp pistons, new crank and bearings, new uprated oil pump , ported and polished head to group a specification, new T35 hybrid turbo ,grey injectors and MSD 380 bhp chip etc.It has now done 106,000 and at 102,000 was upgraded again with T38 turbo, Siemens 83lb injectors, wasted spark ignition,A&S inlet plenum, lightened flywheel and new wiring looms.Custom chip live mapped at MSD. Gets properly driven and does not smoke or use oil.Never blown the head gasket or had any major oil leaks so I can say that in my case the engine has been very reliable for a long time! It has had a new Helix 6 paddle clutch and hydraulic conversion but that was personal choice.
27-12-2016, 07:55 PM
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That makes it easier you already have a 200 4x4 block which will easy take your target power with no worry about trans
27-12-2016, 08:01 PM
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i would have kept the yb also just not in the car lol so the swap would have been reversible ... and considering how values are rising on cosworths I don't plan on selling any time soon but I know what you mean.
27-12-2016, 08:03 PM
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27-12-2016, 08:07 PM
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i will.... thanks for everyone's help... I will keep this updates as to what's going on.. but I think I've decided ... iam giving scs a call and see what my options are.. to be honest I didn't really want the yb out lol i was just getting frustrated with the problems... but it might just be because the engine is tired and in need of a proper rebuild..
27-12-2016, 08:58 PM
#21
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The RS 500 block is a solid start for building up a good reliable YB, or sell it and get a stack of cash as it is worth quite a bit ,to spend on a proper rebuild.
28-12-2016, 08:35 AM
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28-12-2016, 08:47 AM
#25
I've found that life I needed.. It's HERE!!
28-12-2016, 10:45 AM
#26
We would all be queing out the bloody door like all the idiots outside the apple store when a new device comes out.
Prob near 10k for that lot unless you are able to build it yourself.
Start with an engine build first for a good base then upgrade at a later date when funds allow.
But pick a tuner and do not take advice from the internet.
Do it once do it right and have fun doing it.....
Paul
28-12-2016, 10:58 AM
#27
cossie fan (unluckerly)
Bart could you tell me a place that can do all this for 6k.?
We would all be queing out the bloody door like all the idiots outside the apple store when a new device comes out.
Prob near 10k for that lot unless you are able to build it yourself.
Start with an engine build first for a good base then upgrade at a later date when funds allow.
But pick a tuner and do not take advice from the internet.
Do it once do it right and have fun doing it.....
Paul
We would all be queing out the bloody door like all the idiots outside the apple store when a new device comes out.
Prob near 10k for that lot unless you are able to build it yourself.
Start with an engine build first for a good base then upgrade at a later date when funds allow.
But pick a tuner and do not take advice from the internet.
Do it once do it right and have fun doing it.....
Paul
28-12-2016, 11:25 AM
#29
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Bart could you tell me a place that can do all this for 6k.?
We would all be queing out the bloody door like all the idiots outside the apple store when a new device comes out.
Prob near 10k for that lot unless you are able to build it yourself.
Start with an engine build first for a good base then upgrade at a later date when funds allow.
But pick a tuner and do not take advice from the internet.
Do it once do it right and have fun doing it.....
Paul
We would all be queing out the bloody door like all the idiots outside the apple store when a new device comes out.
Prob near 10k for that lot unless you are able to build it yourself.
Start with an engine build first for a good base then upgrade at a later date when funds allow.
But pick a tuner and do not take advice from the internet.
Do it once do it right and have fun doing it.....
Paul
28-12-2016, 11:47 AM
#30
I guess there is one thing we can all agree on guys it is an expensive game.
And to top it off there are no guarantees......
A good rebuilt standard ish lump with 380 to 400 bhp is possible within your budget.
Remember then if you wanna go modern ecu etc later MAD has seen awesome results on a std engine with a BW turbo, manifold mapped to perfection will see 470+ bhp. More with cams.....
Good luck...
And to top it off there are no guarantees......
A good rebuilt standard ish lump with 380 to 400 bhp is possible within your budget.
Remember then if you wanna go modern ecu etc later MAD has seen awesome results on a std engine with a BW turbo, manifold mapped to perfection will see 470+ bhp. More with cams.....
Good luck...
30-12-2016, 06:53 PM
#31
PassionFord Regular
Bart could you tell me a place that can do all this for 6k.?
We would all be queing out the bloody door like all the idiots outside the apple store when a new device comes out.
Prob near 10k for that lot unless you are able to build it yourself.
Start with an engine build first for a good base then upgrade at a later date when funds allow.
But pick a tuner and do not take advice from the internet.
Do it once do it right and have fun doing it.....
Paul
We would all be queing out the bloody door like all the idiots outside the apple store when a new device comes out.
Prob near 10k for that lot unless you are able to build it yourself.
Start with an engine build first for a good base then upgrade at a later date when funds allow.
But pick a tuner and do not take advice from the internet.
Do it once do it right and have fun doing it.....
Paul
I think it would be possible for 6k but it could be more when you dont have a good base engine.
31-12-2016, 09:00 AM
#32
2.3 Ecoboost would be awesome. And you could sell the YB engine, loom and management so not as expensive as it might first seem.
However - the management wouldnt want to play nice out of the box, you would be as well to budget some standalone like Syvecs. Lee at Devil Developments does a plug and play for it now I think.
However - the management wouldnt want to play nice out of the box, you would be as well to budget some standalone like Syvecs. Lee at Devil Developments does a plug and play for it now I think.
31-12-2016, 09:17 AM
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2.3 Ecoboost would be awesome. And you could sell the YB engine, loom and management so not as expensive as it might first seem.
However - the management wouldnt want to play nice out of the box, you would be as well to budget some standalone like Syvecs. Lee at Devil Developments does a plug and play for it now I think.
However - the management wouldnt want to play nice out of the box, you would be as well to budget some standalone like Syvecs. Lee at Devil Developments does a plug and play for it now I think.
31-12-2016, 09:19 AM
#34
10K+ Poster!!
If I was building something like a fast mk2 escort and wanted turbo power I would def go eco boost or similar, I have even considered buying a trimmed escort cos shell and fitting a more modern engine but for purity I would stick yb if the car is pretty original.
31-12-2016, 09:26 AM
#35
But as for reliable only time will tell the tuners have only just got their hands on them as i thought and correct me if im wrong its a new engine in the focus RS and mustang and only 4 pot.
31-12-2016, 09:35 AM
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I can understand if it was a Normal sierra or a shell being built up to go for this lump. It is a no brainer even a zetec turbo would be better than a yb in some cases.
But as for reliable only time will tell the tuners have only just got their hands on them as i thought and correct me if im wrong its a new engine in the focus RS and mustang and only 4 pot.
But as for reliable only time will tell the tuners have only just got their hands on them as i thought and correct me if im wrong its a new engine in the focus RS and mustang and only 4 pot.
31-12-2016, 09:36 AM
#37
It would be nice to keep the standard management as its pretty incredible. But none of us have cracked the torque interface between its torque management and derived torque control for its 4wd system so im pretty certain without the TCU there would be issues.
Interesting project though... if you pull the RDU fuse it reverts to full power FWD mode. I wonder if that would work fine? Or would it put up a fight?
For those not familiar with the 2.3 Ecoboost. Look at this power curve.
31-12-2016, 09:43 AM
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Totally agree.
It would be nice to keep the standard management as its pretty incredible. But none of us have cracked the torque interface between its torque management and derived torque control for its 4wd system so im pretty certain without the TCU there would be issues.
Interesting project though... if you pull the RDU fuse it reverts to full power FWD mode. I wonder if that would work fine? Or would it put up a fight?
For those not familiar with the 2.3 Ecoboost. Look at this power curve.
https://youtu.be/Rt37ZhnLbZE
It would be nice to keep the standard management as its pretty incredible. But none of us have cracked the torque interface between its torque management and derived torque control for its 4wd system so im pretty certain without the TCU there would be issues.
Interesting project though... if you pull the RDU fuse it reverts to full power FWD mode. I wonder if that would work fine? Or would it put up a fight?
For those not familiar with the 2.3 Ecoboost. Look at this power curve.
https://youtu.be/Rt37ZhnLbZE
tell me what you think
31-12-2016, 09:47 AM
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