Neil_M

Folks,

Just wondering what people do with the 4x4 gear box more specifically on the sapphire cosworth.

I read it can hope with 350-400, but beyond that point what to people do? Im sure many people are running those power figures. Do they just rebuild the stock GB, or install quaife internals etc?!!

Just I dont see that many shelling out of the expensive Quaife stuff.

Many thanks!
Neil

ybturbo

Sometimes it brakes at 350bhp, it depends from the torque of the engine and how fast it is produced... Many people use Fixit, Bara or other gear kits which are rated to about 600bhp. I have a 400bhp 520Nm sapphire and asked the Quaife for a Group N gear kit and they said that it is on the limit of it's handling torque...

TurboShed

Isn't Group N standard?

Captain500rs

Think it depends on how you drive the car aswell, as to how long your box will last,i.e standing start launches aint gonna see it last long. Mapping can also help aswell like getting a lot of the boost spike mapped out so the torque aint as aggressive, i know people wiv 400+ bhp on standard boxes which aint gone bang yet.

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

Buy the bara box and hydraulic conversion i'm selling :P

Neil_M

Thanks for the replies folks!

Is the Quaife gear kit not very expensive?

What are the Fixit or Bara gear kits costing approx?

Paul, I would if I was in the position! Im from NI too

- Sim -

maybe use the search function, these things were discussed 100 times....

bara and fixit starting at roughly 3000 pounds

charlie luciano

iTrader: (3)

Imo the standard 4x4 box is about as good as a chocolate tea pot I've done two and I don't mis-treat my car, what you have to watch is going from neg boost to max boost particularly in 3rd gear as that's the one that messes its pants quite regularly also the constant launching tends to do them no favours either,

I am in the process of upping the power in my car GT30 etc etc, hoping to get around the 480bhp mark

am thinking about one of these kits from Italy if it does what it says on the tin I think its quite competitevly priced compared to other kits/manufacturers out there

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/COSWORTH-4X4-R...parms=65%3A12%
7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1689%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Luciano

Captain500rs

Seems canny that, i'd be thinking of going rear wheel drive wiv anything near 500bhp, its alright having the box, its having the diffs etc to go with it aswell. Lose so much through 4 wheel drive transmission.

Neil_M

Thanks for the link Charlie, it does seem a good price though .

But the diffs need done as well, all expensive stuff

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

You'll get away with standard diffs until up go over 400bhp

If it was me and i was doing it again, i'd do the gearbox first, then the front diff and lastly the rear.

Where abouts are you from mate? Any pics of your motor?

Neil_M

No Cossie as of yet, an 08 Fez ST is the daily driver at the mo and a Sapphire 4x4 is looking like the weekend / project car / something to break.

Im based in Antrim or just outside it .

dojj

iTrader: (3)

it cost me around the Ł4k mark to get my quaife stuff and have it fitted and all that, not sure how much power it'll handle as i bought it about 6 years ago, drove the car for about 300 miles and then it blew up

but i was breaking boxes left right and centre as i had close to 400 lb/ft most of the way through the rev range, although admited this was coming from a V6 twin turbo

as charlie says, chocolate teapots are those boxes as i killed mine going along the motorway and planted my foot in fifth at about 70 and the next thing you know there was plumes of smoke coming out the back as i'd killed the bearings on a brand new ford box after 26 miles

and when i went back to them they said "sorry sir, this is the 3rd box you've broken in 2 months, you will have to give us another Ł700 for a new one"

either go 2wd and save your pennies for sideways drifting driving lessons or spend a good few grand on uprating the transmission, Ł4k for a decent box, upto Ł2k for a front diff and another grand for a rear one soon adds up to a lot of drift lessons

Neil_M

Dojj, thanks for the reply mate.

Do you mean you blew up the Quaife gear set?!?

It is serious money!

dojj

iTrader: (3)

no mate, i blew up the engine trying to max it out on the way to somewhere that morning so i had about 3 weeks worth of trialing the box and, for what it's worth, it felt very good

althuogh now i think about it, it seems very hard to justify the price when there are other outfits out there who will do bigger numbers for less Ł

Neil_M

Ahh sorry mate, and sorry to hear about the engine.

I guess it was the next weakest thing to go!

Im still tempted but the 4x4 though!

It would be nice to have the box and diffs sorted and not be worried about giving it some beans.

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

To be honest if you have around 350lbft you should be okish unless you really rag the car loads(hard launches etc)

If you do get a cossie, first thing i'd do is put solid bushes on the shifter cradle and on of R&B's short shift levers, both mods are only Ł30 ish each but they transform the way the box changes gear

Neil_M

Cool, I have noted that, thanks!

What about the "Race-spec MT75 shifter arrangement". Worth it for looks alone ?

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

neil if i were getting a weekend car,dry weather use etc a 2wd is the better option as said above if you are going stage 3 or above it will cost you the price of a half decent 2wd on boxes and diffs alone.

cheers james

Neil_M

Ta for the reply James.

Its food for thought and of course it depends what my plans are. After all it will cost money to tune the car horsepower wise, never mind tinker with the suspension, brakes, body work or additional parts to keep the thing in good condition.

james kiely

iTrader: (5)

neil if you can, buy a car that has already being modified if thats what your after ,otherwise you will end up spending a fortune.

cheers james

jemis

standard gearbox should be ok with stage 3 if its in good nick but will struggle over that mine eats them with 390lb/ft and 408bhp. I'm actually thinking of dropping to a stage 3 set up. I have 2 spare boxes waiting in the garage.

Neil_M

Again another good point.

But I would like to start with a blank canvas so to speak. But you are quite right, something that has been modified to start with would save money.

Then im not really looking to make the latest and greatest car out there, just my own car, with my own input, doesnt have to be the fastest at all!

Decisions, decisions.

Neil_M

Why not sell your kidneys and the spare gear boxes and get a gear kit

jemis

Don't use the car enough to justify the cost of doing it properly.

lloydmotorsport

iTrader: (1)

i sell these proper 4x4 mount bushes,50 quid a set.they transform the gear change

Neil_M

Fair point. In reality if I start with a relatively stock car, I wont be able to justify the cost of a fire breathing monster, it will be as good as I can do.

Neil_M

Thanks for the pic!

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

T34 car is really all you need to be honest, a 360ish bhp cossie will show up a lot of fast cars

Neil_M

LOL, its more for me, rather than being the quickest car out there...

Any "theoretical" cars they have been known to show up?

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

Countless jap scrap, M3s, CSLs etc closest would be an M6, it would have a Sapph top end, but sub 140mph, the sapph was holding its own well lol

The thing about a Sapph is, out of all the Cosworths, it the one people least expect to be fast. The 3 door and Escort look fast, Sapph looks like a taxi

I can honestly say, if you get a good one, it'll put a massive smile on your face - til it breaks

Captain500rs

I've even had a play with a ferrari 599 lol mine didnt do much but was good watching the ferrari go lol

Neil_M

LMAO! Its all good fun!

I was doing a fair bit of reading today and to be honest, ~300BHP would be plenty. Especially if im into keeping a tidy car and looking at the handling and braking aspect of the car. I think or hope the gearbox and diifs should be ok at that with sensible use.

Paul thats why I like the Sapphire because its a little unassuming. Quite like my ST Fez in that respect.

KSA-Cossie

iTrader: (4)

Where is it for sale paul ?

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

It was for sale in the cossie parts section, but its not going unless the car sells

Neil - 300bhp just isn't enough :P you want at least 330bhp

Neil_M

LOL 30 extra all adds up .

What are you running horsie wise out of interest Paul?

Would approx 330 run ok on a standards rebuilt gear box, with shot peened gears, just thinking of a budget solution.

Im tempted by GGRs 330 conversion.

Paul_RS

iTrader: (4)

Mine should be around 380ish

Its more the torque you produce that kills the boxes, mine lasted a year at 370lb/ft lol. That on a t34 with a big lowish down spike.

Sounds silly, but the boxes last longer on bigger turbos as the torque is delivered higer up the revs and more smoothly.

I'd say the standard box would last fine on a stage 3 if you treat it with a wee bit of respect

Saaamon

iTrader: (2)

Go for a stage 3 2wd, it will give you a bigger buzz than 4wd then spend the rest of your money that you would of spent on a 4wd box to improve the body work/suspension/engine re-build..

Neil_M

I have heard that the bigger "laggier" turbos can help make things last a little longer.

I totally see the benefits of the 2WD, but then if I went in that direction I would really fancy a 3door.

What are the 2WD gearboxes rated to approximately?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

500 brake apparently

then you need to buy a diff, just ask jb how many he's broke in the past, i garantee you'll need someoen elses fingers and toes to add that lot up