Datastream enabled ECU
02-07-2009, 11:23 AM
#41
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IMO the Cosworth ECU's are more than adequate to produce power, stats & the functions that 90% of users would ever want , so why change?
02-07-2009, 11:46 AM
#42
Any software that is designed to read RS232 data isn't actually decoding any tuners chip data, as the chip isn't being accessed.
02-07-2009, 02:50 PM
#43
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I think I can see what you are saying a little there Stu. For anyone to check the trigger point and add/alter if necessary then they would need to disassemble the tuners code. But given that few tuners have their own unique software for coding the majority use a core application to modify.
02-07-2009, 03:15 PM
#44
I think I can see what you are saying a little there Stu. For anyone to check the trigger point and add/alter if necessary then they would need to disassemble the tuners code. But given that few tuners have their own unique software for coding the majority use a core application to modify.
Yes, most use Pectel IEMS.
02-07-2009, 03:32 PM
#45
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Thats ok if all you want is to alter certain code on a chip, but if you want to alter the actual program you need to convert the entire eprom code into "english". Well not quite english, more like Motorola 6803 machine code 8) which is complicated unless you are a programmer 
Has anyone tried TunerPro?
Has anyone tried TunerPro?
02-07-2009, 03:36 PM
#46
Thats ok if all you want is to alter certain code on a chip, but if you want to alter the actual program you need to convert the entire eprom code into "english". Well not quite english, more like Motorola 6803 machine code 8) which is complicated unless you are a programmer
Has anyone tried TunerPro?
Has anyone tried TunerPro?
Yes, ive used Tuner pro for many years, its excellent.
02-07-2009, 03:49 PM
#47
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No, I understand what you are on about. But I am struggling with the "don't release the software" I could understand not releasing the actual different triggers or machine code that does various tasks on the eprom.
02-07-2009, 04:50 PM
#48
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That is the feature tuners are likely upset at mate as Simon has publicly announced he has done that and is releasing the software to do it. Its not something he has designed, its a backdoor that Pectel designed in over 20 years ago that we all knew existed but didn't utilise as we have no wish to copy other tuners software or make it possible for others to do so.
Infact you told me there wasnt any money in cosworths anymore so didnt mind what I did - At first !
I did say, I would release it without the maps feature if you allowed me to realese it on here publically but by then you had the hump !
I never claimed I designed the protocol or its features. In fact the protcol is based on another unrelated to cars designed by someone else !
I discovered all the backdoors myself and decided to make use of them to see how far I could push the L8/P8.
The data stream wasn't a Pectel thing, from what I understand. The serial output is a feature of the the Motorola processor in the ECU. Pectel were the 1st to utilize this with the monitor initially designed for motorsport uses.
Any software that is designed to read RS232 data isn't actually decoding any tuners chip data, as the chip isn't being accessed.
Any software that is designed to read RS232 data isn't actually decoding any tuners chip data, as the chip isn't being accessed.
Pectel were unique in that they added the protocol to thier versions of the chips.
As for using RS232, thats irrelivant, you are reading the data which is in the chip !!
ALL chips on cossies are derived at some point from webers original cpu code and maps and so are pirated to some point technically and to me that means they are open season in terms of research (not copying)
Its a fact, we cant talk about copying music files on this site but people are allowed to trade with effectively "copied" software here
lol*** If I have said anything on this post that is incorrect, please point it out to me and I will withdraw my comment if proved to be false
Last edited by ECU Monitor Enthusiast; 02-07-2009 at 04:59 PM. Reason: So many spelling mistakes...OOL
02-07-2009, 06:00 PM
#51
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Graham,
It is the only method of comms but it is driven by software routines.
I.E. The SCI is only a byte sending and receiving hardware device.
Routines within the chip, monitor the input, recognise data strings and transmits the reply data (fixed and live readings) using a combination of normal and interupt routines.
If you like, I will post up the basic structure code here with some parts removed to protect agasint chip copying . ???
It is the only method of comms but it is driven by software routines.
I.E. The SCI is only a byte sending and receiving hardware device.
Routines within the chip, monitor the input, recognise data strings and transmits the reply data (fixed and live readings) using a combination of normal and interupt routines.
If you like, I will post up the basic structure code here with some parts removed to protect agasint chip copying . ???
02-07-2009, 06:14 PM
#52
Testing the future
That is the feature tuners are likely upset at mate as Simon has publicly announced he has done that and is releasing the software to do it. Its not something he has designed, its a backdoor that Pectel designed in over 20 years ago that we all knew existed but didn't utilise as we have no wish to copy other tuners software or make it possible for others to do so.
or you can read the maps using the more or less freely available version of IEMS that is floating about on the internet.
02-07-2009, 06:18 PM
#53
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you can easily just get the .bin file off the chip and read it into excel and therefore read the entire maps. you don't need anything fancy for that.
or you can read the maps using the more or less freely available version of IEMS that is floating about on the internet.
or you can read the maps using the more or less freely available version of IEMS that is floating about on the internet.
On some early pectel chips/versions, the encrption is only applied to part of the chip leaving the map data viewable but chips like MSD/Collins etc., encrypt the whole chip !
02-07-2009, 06:25 PM
#54
Or you could get it released under a GUI freely here on PassionFord which you agreed to do and then changed your mind...You miss all these things out of your story and its unfair to me.
I quite simply wont allow you to trade your goods on here when you are not a trader and you also still owe me rectification of outstanding problems with past transactions that are now years old!
02-07-2009, 06:45 PM
#55
the problem is when the system show advance or injector timing, so i can understand that the tuner want to keep his map ...
but if a display only show the inputs and not the output (just the output error messages), everyone would be happy no ?
but if a display only show the inputs and not the output (just the output error messages), everyone would be happy no ?
02-07-2009, 07:29 PM
#56
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I have never said it woudlnt affect me, and I genuinely dont really care what you do mate, I even said go and release it on another forum didnt i? Or you could get it released under a GUI freely here on PassionFord which you agreed to do and then changed your mind...
Or you could get it released under a GUI freely here on PassionFord which you agreed to do and then changed your mind...with respect, You did tell me, cosworth work was hardly worth bothering with as their was much more money in german diesels !
I didnt change my mind, you changed it for me by wanting me to give away all my hard work easily so that others could abuse it and making that a condition you knew I wouldnt agree to !
I believe you did that to prevent me from giving away software that would open up your chips to everyone.
I even offered to restrict it so it wouldnt do so but that wasnt good enough.
(I think the above statement shows that I was willing to work with you, not against you !)
A software program can be 100% free without the source code being available.
For example, "internet explorer". "flash player". "vagcomm" to name a few.. !
I didnt want to release it as 100% open souce until I was happy with it as a completed entity anyway as at that time it was far from perfect and was evolving.
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
I quite simply wont allow you to trade your goods on here when you are not a trader
I admit, the program was something I thought about trading but I wanted to do this through yourself as stated on other threads.
You didnt want to do it in the end as it conflicted with your business !
I then changed my mind and decided to give it away FOC, I even stated it many times and even put the fact its free software in the program "about" menu so that no one could obtain it and sell it on.
There are many free copies of the original work out there and you will not find one person who paid me a penny for it !
I believe even yourself had a copy of it at some point.
My previous trader name and company name were not used anywhere in the software nor was there any form of advertising. !!
(I used my own full name)
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
you also still owe me rectification of outstanding problems with past transactions that are now years old!
I did do some work for you which you tested and accepted. You even paid me for it when it was complete.
However, I did offer to do extra work for you FOC when I had time but chose not to as you were being difficult over my user name and other issues on here such as this one !
For the record and other peoples information....
I dont owe you any money nor am I under any kind of contract to you or MSD.
If you feel I am obliged to help you then I can supply a new mailing address to where you can send any letter or legal documentation.
(I have moved from my previous address)
I really dont want to argue with you Stu, Nearly all this is history spread out on other threads anyway !
First and foremost I a FORD enthusiast who wants to help and share knowledge with those who want to learn.
Surely, this is what this site is about..??
And once again for the record...
I am not a trader anymore and I an NOT here to make money !
02-07-2009, 07:31 PM
#57
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Equally, Someone could plot injector duraton against RPM on an oscilloscope whilst using a rolling road.
02-07-2009, 07:38 PM
#58
i can also understand that some tuners don't want that everybody can see the contains of differents chip ... (wich, sometime, have same maps for differents specs...)
so, i think that a display like the SCES (so without advance and timing) but with data from the pectel datastream would be an excellent idea to check the engine working ????
03-07-2009, 06:34 AM
#61
I didn't change my mind, you changed it for me by wanting me to give away all my hard work easily so that others could abuse it and making that a condition you knew I wouldn't agree to !
I admit, the program was something I thought about trading
I then changed my mind and decided to give it away FOC, I even stated it many times and even put the fact its free software in the program "about" menu so that no one could obtain it and sell it on.
I then changed my mind and decided to give it away FOC, I even stated it many times and even put the fact its free software in the program "about" menu so that no one could obtain it and sell it on.
I wanted to do this through yourself as stated on other threads.You didn't want to do it in the end as it conflicted with your business !
I did do some work for you which you tested and accepted. You even paid me for it when it was complete. However, I did offer to do extra work for you FOC when I had time but chose not to as you were being difficult over my user name and other issues on here such as this one !
For the record and other peoples information....
I dont owe you any money nor am I under any kind of contract to you or MSD. If you feel I am obliged to help you then I can supply a new mailing address to where you can send any letter or legal documentation.
(I have moved from my previous address)
I dont owe you any money nor am I under any kind of contract to you or MSD. If you feel I am obliged to help you then I can supply a new mailing address to where you can send any letter or legal documentation.
(I have moved from my previous address)
P.S: The components were already over a year late when the user name argument cropped up so thats a lame excuse.
I really dont want to argue with you Stu,
Last edited by Stu @ M Developments; 03-07-2009 at 06:36 AM.
03-07-2009, 08:12 AM
#62
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03-07-2009, 08:41 AM
#64
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Stu, it was just your point about it being your website ... just wanted to clarify who's site it was thats all! I didn't realise you had a role in the management of the domain, my misunderstanding.
05-07-2009, 02:06 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
German Diesels? LOL. You seem to have a real hangup about German cars, but yeah of the 56000 ECU's we can recalibrate yes, even the German Diesels are more profitable than the old Cosworth stuff. I'm shocked that surprises you though I must admit! Thats not to say we dont sell a lot of Cosworth stuff we do, the point I was making (Obviously badly) is its a very small portion of our work and it would bother me far les than some of the dedicated Cosworth recalibrators out there.
This is a Ford site and the "owner/creataor"
doesnt even have one 
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Simon you agreed fully as you agreed it was a great way to prove your not trying to sell your wares on here. Do I really need to link to it?
I guess my head was turned briefly but while it was, I would have only sold it through yourself !
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Had you never told me personally that your intention was to sell this product, I guess would never have suspected you wanted to sell it on here. You cant tell someone a product is commercial and then change your mind and say its not and expect them to say, oh, ok, jump on my website with 50000 potential customers and start offering it around for free, the traders wont mind. lol
In my opinion, you realised how good it was becoming with all the features, yet I did offer to restrict it but you promptly used ANY excuse to prevent me from publishing it free for all.
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Yes, because I am the UK distributor for your only competing product. Again, hardly surprising is it?
I understand you are in a unique position being that you are not elected to this site so I cant do anything about it !..LOL
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Thats fine, but you also chose not to tell me your weren't going to do it and left me and my customers waiting with a completed engine sat on a stand awaiting your sensor simulator for a YEAR!!
** I logged in normally one day and discovered I could get in the room.
Must have been a "computer glitch", absolutely no hacking or third parties involved
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Its not an obligation Simon, its a matter of simple manners. When you personally agree to do something for another business, and continue to say it will be done your just short of time, even saying its nearly finished and will be with me soon, you should finish the job as agreed because that business is now relying on you. This has always been your problem as you well know, my problem was placing too much trust in you I guess.
P.S: The components were already over a year late when the user name argument cropped up so thats a lame excuse.
P.S: The components were already over a year late when the user name argument cropped up so thats a lame excuse.
Anyway, as stated above, there was/is more to it.
Originally Posted by Stu @ M Developments
Neither Do I with you. I much preferred it when we got along Simon, we made a good team once upon a time.
I want to contribute to this FORD site. I have much knowlegde to share but you wont allow it !
Many users want to learn and/or experience what I have as shown on this thread and by the many PM's i receive asking for help or information about such things.
I am fed up of send reply PM's saying I cant help due to the the admins attitude..!!
I think its about time you realised, I am no longer a trader here in any way, shape or form !
I dont ask for any reward for helping people and in fact I actively help YOUR existing/potential customers where I can.
I offered to restrict my software when I realsied it could be used to break open your mapping and other premium features but I did offer to remove this feature but that offer was totally ignored.
I guess we are still at a stalemate unless you decide to add more points to my total.
Last edited by ECU Monitor Enthusiast; 05-07-2009 at 02:09 PM.
05-07-2009, 03:25 PM
#67
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Well Simon, as you say it's this an enthusiasts site. As you are not a trader then real there should be no reason why your application or some of the theory couldn't be released. Your application is excellent and other projects for other cars have been released without repercussions, with the same and maybe even more functions available.
If the application allows for greater control than some others think the general public should have then tough. It's bad enough that this damn
government and the namby pambies in the world telling us what we should or shouldn't do!!! So allowing general public; tuners/garages/car owners etc to dictate to me just really gets on my t!ts .
If the application allows for greater control than some others think the general public should have then tough. It's bad enough that this damn
government and the namby pambies in the world telling us what we should or shouldn't do!!! So allowing general public; tuners/garages/car owners etc to dictate to me just really gets on my t!ts .
05-07-2009, 03:52 PM
#68
Simon, I truly cannot be bothered arguing the toss with you all week. How many times are you going to skate around the fact that when you release it royalty free you CAN use PF to discuss it all day long?
The minute I let you use PF last time there was talk about selling it to people within 20 posts so it was binned as sly trading. Our fault? I think not. Thats why we want it on a GNU as you and others who read the topics well know.
You love to leave out key facts to make yourself look like you have been victimised. Lucky I have a good memory.
Do as we agreed and get it on pf instead of spending so much time feeling sorry for yourself.
The minute I let you use PF last time there was talk about selling it to people within 20 posts so it was binned as sly trading. Our fault? I think not. Thats why we want it on a GNU as you and others who read the topics well know.
You love to leave out key facts to make yourself look like you have been victimised. Lucky I have a good memory.
Do as we agreed and get it on pf instead of spending so much time feeling sorry for yourself.
05-07-2009, 07:01 PM
#69
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I am getting some odd results from the serial data out of the ECU!
Is there a similar handshake requirement as per other IAW ecu's?
i.e. inital Tx to ecu @ 1200 then wait a given time for a response then switch to 7812 (or there abouts) baud for Rx/Tx.
My app is currently trying various options and it will report back sometime soon
Is there a similar handshake requirement as per other IAW ecu's?
i.e. inital Tx to ecu @ 1200 then wait a given time for a response then switch to 7812 (or there abouts) baud for Rx/Tx.
My app is currently trying various options and it will report back sometime soon
06-07-2009, 11:14 AM
#70
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Graham,
Sorry mate , You are barking up the wrong tree totally there.
The pectel type protocol is nothing like any of the others !
The data you are seeing is garbage replies ! .....hint... Divide the clock frequency by 2048 to get your baud rate
Also, the hardware interface is "upside down" compared to others !!!
All,
I have had so many requests for the protocol information that it would be unfair to give it away to only one person.
Given recent events, I have now decided to give away the whole protocol information and release my software in its full form on this site.
The software will include full source code I have written ..... to keep Stu happy.
All of this of course will be totally free of charge and used at your own risk of course.
I would hope the admin allows this as this site already effectively promotes and trades chip tuning and reverse engineering of weber ecu chips that are in reality nothing but hacked and/or modified versions of other peoples work gained without permission.
I.E. If others are allowed the do this for money then it is only fair that I can do this for no reward.
If anyone has objections to this then please by all means let me know as I am happy to discuss !
I will start a new topic later tonight and post the link on this thread.
(if you are not suscribed to this thread... You best do so now)
Many thanks to all like minded technical enthusiasts and I look forward to a proper technical discussion for a change
Sorry mate , You are barking up the wrong tree totally there.
The pectel type protocol is nothing like any of the others !
The data you are seeing is garbage replies ! .....hint... Divide the clock frequency by 2048 to get your baud rate
Also, the hardware interface is "upside down" compared to others !!!
All,
I have had so many requests for the protocol information that it would be unfair to give it away to only one person.
Given recent events, I have now decided to give away the whole protocol information and release my software in its full form on this site.
The software will include full source code I have written ..... to keep Stu happy.
All of this of course will be totally free of charge and used at your own risk of course.
I would hope the admin allows this as this site already effectively promotes and trades chip tuning and reverse engineering of weber ecu chips that are in reality nothing but hacked and/or modified versions of other peoples work gained without permission.
I.E. If others are allowed the do this for money then it is only fair that I can do this for no reward.
If anyone has objections to this then please by all means let me know as I am happy to discuss !
I will start a new topic later tonight and post the link on this thread.
(if you are not suscribed to this thread... You best do so now)
Many thanks to all like minded technical enthusiasts and I look forward to a proper technical discussion for a change
Last edited by ECU Monitor Enthusiast; 06-07-2009 at 11:52 AM. Reason: spelling and punctuation...duh !
06-07-2009, 09:20 PM
#73
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Well I started it...
Here... https://passionford.com/forum/genera...ml#post4253411
I will update it as often as I can hopefully about 3 times a week
Here... https://passionford.com/forum/genera...ml#post4253411
I will update it as often as I can hopefully about 3 times a week
01-09-2013, 02:11 PM
#76
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Rp-lab 110€
Motorsport Developments £99
Sorry but no thanks, i know that it´s REALLY simple to enable it. So i won´t pay that much for it.
The same is for wasted fire on P8 ...
Motorsport Developments £99
Sorry but no thanks, i know that it´s REALLY simple to enable it. So i won´t pay that much for it.
The same is for wasted fire on P8 ...
01-09-2013, 06:37 PM
#77
Testing the future
if it's that simple, why don't you do it? it requires equipment and staff costs and initial development time costs to be recouped. too many people want something for nothing.
