welshphill

hey folks, started to get my 4x4 up and running and came across one major stumbling block, i can't get the bugger started!!!!

now she's been stood about a year, ive got a nice fat spark, but seems to be not fueling...

i've put a tenner of fresh it what seemed like a dry (nowt showing on the tank gauge, did'nt even move a bit!!!) tank

when you turn on the ignition i can hear a drone/kinda charging thing, she'll turn over well but not even try to catch!!

also with the ignition on and me head under the back i can't hear owt from the pump, arn't they spose to quite noisy (with my old xr scort and my 20is sierra i can hear the pump humming stood up and about 3 feet away!!)

i don't have a key, (she's stolen recovered) is there any factory immobiliser or key recognition thing???

also i came aross this, not sure what it is, or what it does, but i've got a small aftermarket switch on the dash an when i switch it i get a definate click from it...

here's where it is...



and the different pipes...



any help that you could give on any of the above would be very much appreciated, i'm a complete cossie virgin but wanna learn and get her up and running....

tabetha

The thing that you pictured is the amal valve, or boost control solenoid as ford call it, this serves to open the wastgate when told to do so by the ecu, the switch is there so that you can effectively drive it with no turbo assistance if wanted.
You certainly should be able to hear the pump when underneath, most can be heard when running sat in the car.
First I would check the fuel cut off switch has not triggered, if it has press the button down that has popped to reset, see what happens, 2wd are in the boot under spare wheel, think 4wd are in the passenger side kick panel cutout, but not totally sure.
If no joy run wires straight to pump corrrect way around from another battery/jump pack etc, then loosen fuel pipe fitting from bottomof pressure reg to see if pressure there, although listen carefully and you will hear the note of the pump change anyway, as it pressurises.
Then try again.
If it was a totally dry tank you might well need to stick a bit more in than £10 to start with.
tabetha

welshphill

thanks for that, i'll go and find the fuel cut off and prime the pump...

been told the aml valve is wired to the pin 13 on the ecu and will give full boost all the time...

does that sound right???

welshphill

right then, moving on...

i've found the fuel cut-off switch (it was in the boot!!) but there's no live to the switch...

now what i'm needing to know is where will i find the fuse/relay, etc. that controls the leccy to the switch???

i'm just about to live up the fuel pump from a charge pack, wish me luck...

rog

iTrader: (2)

There should be two yellow relays, most likely under the passenger side of the dash (or sometimes in the footwell), see if these "click" when you turn on the ignition or better still test the voltage that the black/red wire is getting. There should also be some fuses here too, check these also.

rog

iTrader: (2)

Also i forgot to add, i THINK a bad crank sensor will also cause no fuel as this sends a signal to the ECU i believe, so maybe worth checking this, it's the white senor at the front/bottom of the engine that sits just a few mm from the bottom pulley. Even if it's not, it's something you can eliminate from your diagnosis.

welshphill

reet, now i know what i'm doing tomorrow, looking for the yellow relays and associated fuses behind the dash (checked both footwells looking for the fuel cut-off!!!)...

and i'll give the crank sensor a litle tickle too...

is it a case of taking it out checking the wiring and give it a clean before replacing???

or is there something more i should know???

rog

iTrader: (2)

I would make sure the crank sensor itself is clean and free from crap, also check the condition of the pulley, if the lugs are damaged then it won't pick up anything when you turn the engine over. I don't see a real need to remove it, i would do a search on here to find out what the correct gap is, i can't remember off the top of my head but i think it's 2 mm or something like that, but i don't think this is too critical. The crank sensor connects into a white plug under the inlet manifold/behind the distributor, maybe worth disconnecting that and checiking the contacts are clean.
Like i said before, perhaps it won't cure your issue, but it could definately be the cause, so if everything is ok, then atleast thats peace of mind that this area has been covered already, and you can start clutching at straws agin Lol....
I'm at work so i can't see the pics in your post unfortunately.
When you turn on the ignition the pump should prime for a second or so and stop, it doesn't get a constant feed unless the engine is running, so BE SURE that it's definately not getting any power , i fell foul of this already (get a mate to lie under the car at the back and listen (or get a voltmeter on it) while you turn the key and see if anything happens.

tabetha

If the crank sensor is duff you would get no spark, so you know that's working.
Crank sensor gap is 0.6mm to 1.0mm.
As you have a nice fat spark in your first post, that is why I suggested next doing the fuel pump run direct from a battery, if it now plays ball, you know the fuelling is the problem, and can start at the wiring to/from relay etc.
It will prime under certain conditions only NOT all the time, but if it does so will be for 3 to 4 seconds.
It sounds as though someone has bypassed the cutout in the boot, stupid idea but some do, they never normally give any bother.
How old is the fuel as well ?
tabetha

rog

iTrader: (2)

Apoligies, i thought the CPS signal told the ECU to prime the pump? Thanks for noticing that! (p.s Tabetha "knows his shit" so listenen to him) Getting confused by all the cars i've seen that don't work properly! Mates 4x4 had no spark (fixed the other day), my white one (still fucked), and this one.
Anyway, defo check the relays work and if the pump kicks in at all when you turn the key, also correct me if I'm wrong Tabetha, But i think the buzzing he's reffered to in the first post is the brakes/ABS pump pressuing up when you turn the ignition on, all cossies do that.

welshphill

thank you both for the good and informative answers, i'm learning something everytime!!!

right the lastest progress is.... me fuel pump seems to be fooked!!!

i've put i live (and earth) direct to it from an old battery i have and apart from a little spark and the live wire trying to 'weld' itself to the connection all i get is a slight, hardly audiable thud...

i'm still gonna chase and check the yellow relays and crank sensor, but i got from another site that i can tap it on it's end and on it's side gently to try and free it up, but prob it's siezed (someone had pulled the link pipe from the tank to the pump to drain the tank)

would a 'dry' pump sieze???

welshphill

sorry forgot to add fuel is brand new and about 20 litres, in what i can only presume was a totally dry tank...

rog

iTrader: (2)

Which way round did you connect the wires? Black/red is positive at the pump.
Not sure if a dry pump would seize but i'd say it's possible, never seen inside one but I had a problem like that with my water pump, took the engine apart, when i put it back together the seals inside were buggered and it leaked out the weep hole in the housing, but it was ok before.
Hope it's the pump as it's alot easily sorted than having to dick around finding crappy wiring and fixing it all.

welshphill

yeah, put the wires on the right way round, dunno if the pump was any good before, i only bought the car about 2 weeks ago...

https://passionford.com/forum/genera...the-prowl.html

but for the 1000€ price tag, i'l chase crappy wiring....

so far i've found she's polybushed all round, koni top ajustables all round and lowering springs plus a stainless pipe!!!

think an engine rebuild is going to be on the cards, as the bloke i bought it off said it leaked oil from somewhere on the inlet side of the block, seemed to think there's a hole in the block, so i was assuming thrown rod, self distructing piston, but when i rocked her in gear the engine turned with-out locking, so i took the plugs out and turned her over and she cranked smoothly, now i'm not saying that when i get her started she ain't gonna sound like a bag of spanner in a washing machine, but i'd like to hear her (and to know the electrics, etc. are all in order) before i start any major strip downs...

rog

iTrader: (2)

Sounds like a good approach, and a good price to pay, you may have to spend a little time and money but that's all part of the fun, better than buying a car for more money and it turns out to be fucked.
I bought a white RWD for a similar price a few weeks ago, it doesn't run now either, but it did when i got it! Hopefully sort it out tonight as i have a squad of people coming round to help me look it over to find the problem.
There is a breather (kidney box) under the inlet manifold, it's a pain in the arse to see but get a torch and have a look or get the car up on a ramp/jack and have a look underneath, maybe easier from there.

welshphill

hey, would you and your squad or some of them want a free, come help welshy mend his cossie holiday/long weekend in the french alps???
you pay the flights to geneva and i'll pick you up and put you up in my apartment, keep you fed, in beers, etc. and make sure you have lots of fun (bit of mountain biking, off roading, bbq's and para gliding)
just a thought....

rog

iTrader: (2)

I would like nothing more but i'm sure my wife wouldn't agree! I'll check the prices just to see what the cost would be.

tabetha

Being dry won't affect the pump at all, unless you try to run it dry.
The wire trying to "weld itself" suggest a dead pump as well, it doesn't matter which way you put wires on to try to see if it works, as it will spin either way being a dc motor, indeed spinning it the wrong way often works to dislodge dirt/crap/shit in the pump back to the tank but it of course finds it's way back again.
Of course when trying to use it as a pump, needs to be the right way, there is a minute + and - marked either side of the fuel outlet about 3mm in size!!
Whilst the cps signals the cu, it only primes under certain conditions, it's mainly but not just first thing/start in the day, seeems a bit hit and miss when they do though.
I think he is also referring to the brake/abs pump pressuring up when he says about buzzing.
Don't need to be careful or gentle with the relays, you can safely beat the shit out of them, but if they work when doing this it most likely is a relay prob, but might also be a loose connection point in the relay holder, if at suspect just replace with known good ones, they are std type a or type b ones(different pin layout).
There is nothing wonderful about the pumps, have cut these open before, just a regular DC pump, certainly nothing to justify buying bosch over a decent pattern one of another make that's for sure.
tabetha

welshphill

thanks again, all good and sound advice...

the buzzing or charging sound i expected to be the fuel system pressurising or the abs system doing it's thing, but the charge/buzz sound does'nt stop so it leads me to believe that it's the fuel sysytem trying to come up to pressure and can't cos the pumps done a runner...

cos i thought the abs system might not kick in till she's actually started and as and when the servo gets pumped, the brake/abs system will prime...

does that sound right???

tabetha

You've already established the pump is just shorting cuurent when applied so can't be that making the noise.
Just pull the 30amp green fuse next to relay by abs and fuel pump relay, that way it can't be the abs or abs pump, or just disconnect the motor direct.
tabetha

welshphill

nice one, ur a star!!!!