Red_bull

Hello,

Does somebody has a 1.6 turbo EFI mapping for me to start with. I'm running standard rs turbo lay out, lets say a fiesta engine

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

What version of MS? What injectors? What are you using as a CPS (EFI block, trigger wheel, etc.)?

Red_bull

I'm running a MS 2 on the extra code. I'm running without edis unit and modified my MS for running wasted spark with direct coil control.

I'm using the std VR sensor of the fiesta and running a 36-1 flywheel i believe (it's the standard)

I'm also running on a 190 cc/min @ 3bar injectors

But i was looking for a VE table and ignition table on safe side just to start up with. VE table should be exchangeable for all EFI 1.6 with standard equipment

I'm not looking to copy somebody's work, but wanna do my own haha

Red_bull

Another question

What are the dwell times for the original coils? I'm running the fiesta. Is that a zetec coil pack? I found the following:

Generally settings are between 2.0 and 4.0mS, a Ford Zetec coil pack, for example, is 3.6mS running and 6.0mS cranking. The cranking dwell is usually a lot higher than running dwell. 6.0mS seems to be a very good starting point for this. Minimum discharge period (MS1-Extra) is usually 0.1mS - 0.5mS, I always leave this on 0.1mS and have had no issues. Acceleration compensation should usually be set to around 1mS, Maximum Spark duration can be set to 0.7mS (MS2-Extra or PnP)

On the extra code website is find this:
Maximum Spark Duration (ms) (max_spk_dur) is the amount of time MS2-Extra, MegaSquirt-II (or MicroSquirt) tries to wait before starting another charging cycle. MS-II tries to fit the dwell time + max. spark duration into the time between sparks. If it can fit them, then the full dwell time is used. If the time is too short (because the rpm is high) to fit both the dwell and the max.spark duration, then both are shortened proportionally.
If the max spark duration is too long, however, then the actual dwell value gets shortened at a lower rpm, limiting the spark energy at higher rpms. Typical values are between 1.5 and 2.0 milliseconds.

I have now the 6.0ms for cranking; 10 degrees advance on cranking; maximum dwell of 3.1 (to start on the lower side of the numbers i found); Accleration i put on the found number, 1; Maximum spark duration at 1.5 now as i would say it is the save side. But if the maximum spark duration is too short can this mean my coil can't uncharge completly and with a new cycle my dwell times can become too long? no right?

Is the 10 degrees cranking advance good enough for cranking btw?

Canada1

190 cc/min injectors? Those are extremely low flow injectors.
100% duty cycle and 0.65 BSFC shows those injectors good for only 111 HP.
What boost level are you aiming for?

Red_bull

But i got the injectors in stages control. So two fuelling for 1 cylinder. So then i come too 380cc/min and then it would be good enough for about 180-200 bhp

Canada1

What inlet manifold are you using? Did you modify a manifold for 2 injectors per cylinder?
Love to see a picture of the inlet - I have never seen a dual injector inlet for a cvh.

Great rebuild of the Escort - looks fantastic!

Cheers

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Your max dwell setting can be pushed upto 3.6ms. Discharge time of 0.1. You should also be using standard dwell not fixed etc.

These settings are fine for normal zetec coil packs. You can use an oscilloscope to set this up perfectly if you like.

Rob,

edit Maximum spark duration can be between 0.5 and 1ms. It is usually much much less this is just the maximum set in code.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Why have you done this? That's a lot of work when you could have just fitted bigger injectors! lol

Red_bull

I think i wrote it wrong. I just have the standard set up of injectors, but as there are two banks it will fire two injectors at the same time. Fuell goes into the manifold and is sucked into the right cylinder.

Are you guys running something different then the standard then?

[img]http://www.megamanual.com/v22manual/extwir.gif[\img]

Two injectors are running to one signal?

Maybe i'm wrong on my flow, but the car isn't close to me and i just took it up after leaving everything for over a year. So might need to double check if you guys say i'm on a low flow.

Red_bull

Sorry for the bad information sometimes, but English isn't my native language

studabear

batch firing

Red_bull

That was the one i was looking for

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

It doesn't work like that. 190cc injectors are still 190cc.

Red_bull

So the maximum spark duration can be seen as the time to unload the coil? If it doesn't have enough time it stays loaded?

Anyway the injector problem is probably a mistake on my side as i bought a upgrade of the std blue injectors. I probably took out wrong information out of my inbox.

Does any of you guys run the extracode on their megasquirt?

I will check all my settings and injectors before returning

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

I think all of us on here run the extra code. The maximum spark duration can largely be ignored, however if the duration is too small spark intensity will suffer badly. Stick to the figures I gave above and then play with them when your car is running.

Rob,

Red_bull

Yeah i'll stick to the figures as you said. I'm just curious what behind it. I don't only want to fill in all the numbers like this, but also understand everything i do.

Do you guys then also run on TuneStudio instead of MegaTune?

In non of the manuals i see the over and underdwell protection back. I think i'm gonna leave it off as i don't know what is behind it and i know what i'm doing with the dwell settings (i only didn't know the exact numbers for the zetec coilpack and didn't want to start with oscilo)

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

No worries

Fixed advance: Fix advance to X deg or use the ignition advance table
Use Prediction: The code can 'predict' between trigger events, if the engine speed accelerates between trigger events (teeth on your crank wheel) the code can predict where on the ignition table it should be looking (to a certain degree).
Cranking Dwell: The time the coil is aloud to charge when the car is cranking
Dwell Type: Standard uses your settings, fixed is used with external ignition modules such as EDIS which controls coil dwell independently of the ecu.
Maximum Dwell Duration: This is the maximum amount of time in and condition (other than cranking) that the coil is aloud to charge. Excessive dwell time saturates the coil, once the coil is saturated any extra energy input is converted to heat (bad for the coil).
Maximum spark duration: this is the amount of time ms2 code tries to wait before charging the ignition coil after an ignition even. Code aims to achieve the full dwell time + the max spark duration between ignition events. If it cannot use full dwell time AND max spark duration (usually because RPM is too high and the time between events is very short less than 5-6ms) code will reduce each value proportionally until it can.

So if max spark duration is excessive, then dwell time will be reduced. Reducing dwell time reduces spark intensity and is clearly BAD

A 'spark' even is ended when either the coil runs out of energy OR a new dwell (charging) event begins.

I haven't used spark hardware latency (although this can be setup using a strobe light and setting the timing to a fixed value, rev the engine and see if the timing remains at the fixed value).

I also don't use over or under dwell protection, however it may be a good idea to use over dwell protection as this will stop you from frying your coil, although this has never happened to me.

Hope that helps you

Rob,

Red_bull

So lets say that Max Spark duration is created to not let the new charging event start while fire'ing. I just found that it just cuts your spark and the new event starts from lil higher amps then 0

The part of hardware latency i understood, but for my start up running without will be fine. The thing i also ment is that i can't find, in the manual, which feedback path the controller uses to create these dwell protections?

If i understand correct the ecu will try to go to max dwell time during all cases. Unless rpm gets too high and there isn't enough time then it will shorten. I know if you set dwell too low it will create misfire during high load. Too high fries the coil. But i can't see where the feedback path is from the coil amps back to the controller. This would be needed for dwell protection isn't it?

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Max dwell time + max spark duration.

IMO yes


Im not sure what you mean? I assume the code knows/or will time how long an IGN output has been held low (charging coil), and should be able to release the IGBT to discharge/protect the coil. I doubt it will slightly turn off the IGBT (im confident it doesn't!) to maintain coil charge on the point of saturation, however this would be an interesting idea, but would mean a lot of heat to dissipate in the drive IGBT.

Rob,

Red_bull

What i mean is that the code will time how long it is held low yea, but where is this protection based on? Not on maximum dwell time else you can still frie it.

If i set a dwell of 20ms it is clear there will be lots of heat and i guess damage too. With dwell protection what does the processor do. It can't see the heat in my circuit. It can't see the amps over the coil. For protection there is a loop back needed to the controller. Which i'm not aware there is and if it has not got what is the dwell protection based on. Maybe it's a good question for the extracode forum

Hope my idea/question is clear. Sorry but being Dutch is hard to have this tech english language skills to explain it clear haha