Winger101

Hi everyone,

This is the first time I've ever used a forum so please bare with me.

I really need help with this now as its has almost broken me!!

I have a 1987 escort Rs turbo s2 running a 1.9 cvh MFI

Have but blood sweat and tears into restoring this car!!

Problem is........

Spent the day at my local RS specialists getting it tuned but for neither love or money he can't get the co to stay in one place...

We get it just about perfect on the reading when idling etc then I take it for a blast and come back plug her in and it's gone crazy up to like 12.500 or more. So we adjust co back to say 2 then you can physically watch it creeping up and up and up........

It's baffling Ive had several different metering units this one was off a running car.

my tuner is now out of ideas!!!

Also while testing it out my new fuel pump has just seized maybe a link to my other problem I don't know but it's the second pump now I did notice the main wire from pump to pink relay getting really hot?? And pump getting loader during tuning?

But I tested current to pump and it's all ok why would it seize??

It's a new fuel tank with new fuel and new fuel pipes?

Please please can someone help me or give me ideas. She's fully restored and I've never had her on the road, only to take to tuner, but can't figure this out and I'm close to throwing in the towel.

Why does CO rise and over fuel as soon as you drive around the block and back?????????

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Why was your tuner looking at the CO and not the AFR?
What was your voltage at the fuel pump when running?
Hot wiring is either poorly conucting or the pump is pulling too much current through... I suspect poor wiring has caused the pump to die, struggling for current.

Winger101

Air to fuel ratio?

He had the car plugged in checking the CO level was set correctly and all the rest of the bits on the screen hydro carbons etc etc

But CO wouldn't stabilise just kept rising...

Waiting for a replacement pump to arrive then will check wiring, I was getting 9.30 amps to pump didn't check current as I was checking why the wiring was hot in case to many amps for tolerance of wire.

But surely pump wiring wouldn't cause CO level to keep rising after adjustmant?

Thanks for your advise mate really appreciate it

RichieST

iTrader: (2)

You need to be checking voltage directly at the pump. If you have poor wiring and the voltage is dropping, the pump will start pulling more amps and can then cause damage. I would be checking the wiring, all connections, condition of the relays etc before going further.

Winger101

Thanks buddy, will check all the wiring to the pump and what current I'm getting etc,

Any ideas on the CO problem?

B16CVH

Check for air leaks anywhere. Setting the CO with an airleak which then closes up when hot etc will make for a rich mixture

stwibs

Won't varying voltage at the pump cause varying fuel pressure hence varying readings of co ????!!
Sort the connections and wiring to pump so you have 12v on pump terminals and i reckon you may cure it.

stwibs

Also check return fuel pipe to tank isnt restricting the flow

Winger101

Thank you all for Your advise i will check when i get hold of a pump.

What about my fuel ECU? im running a 1.9 and my friend says i will have a chip in it.. if i replace ECU for a good second hand one can i just swap this chip thing?

As a Faulty ECU would cause the same problem wouldnt it.

My pink relay is fairly new but the tuner said something about there being to types of pink relay, mine had a orange spot sticker on top?

Also does anyone know how to remove the fuel computer stuff off the metering unit?? as my compuiter stopped working anyway and someone said these cause trouble and coukld be linked to overfueling?

Thanks to all,

mgtkr1

i wouldnt bother swapping chips. a chipped ecu is cheap enough these day. i dont think this is the issue though. it seems an air leak is sealing when up to temp and richening up the mixture as a result of the airleak dissappearing. the actual adjuster isnt changing but the conditions are. going from about right (with unknown leak) to extremly rich when the airleak has sealed. id check all known areas before buying a new relay/ecu/metering head/spare wheel ect.

gup

iTrader: (1)

Is your tps set correctly

Winger101

Thanks guys, TPS was checked and i was told its ok, And i checked all my pipes for leaks.

on the tuners digital machine thing it checks for o2 and the only leak i found was from a small pipe coming from LHS of metering unit that wasnt blanked off and should have been. so plugged it and other than that it said o2 was spot on.

What are the common areas to check as i think i checked most.

its strange cause as i drove the car it ran great and idled great until really warm then it was still drivable just very rich and high CO but no clouds of black smoke etc.

What you mention about the leak causing the problem sounds feasible, when we set Co with adjuster on metering unit to 2.5 if you sit and wait a minute she starts rising.

Sorry if i go on alot im not the best mechanic in the world and this car is all new to me, but you gutys are really helping me out.

going to pick up a new temerature sensor in a secound although he said mine was ok i want to be sure.

Winger101

Just picked up a new pump and a water and coolant temp sensor, stopped into my tuner's to say hello and he lent me a couple of fuel ECU's.

He said mine wouldnt have a chip in it so not to worry?

Also his thoughts are as follows

if temp sence had gone there would be clouds of black smoke and it wouldnt run!

Accumulator and pressure regulator, if they had gone it wouldnt run like mine does,

fuel ecu very very rarely goes.

there are no air leaks as all has been checked manually and on machine

Volts to pump could cause pump to fail but if there was a lack of pressure it would be LEAN if anything not have constant rising CO?

Fuel metering unit has been replaced for a known working one as my last unit caused serious overfuelling to the point i couldnt drive it?

Sooo not alot of help lol

stwibs

Unplug the fuel enrichment see if that alters the mixture

Winger101

If by Fuel Enrichment you mean the little black box on the back of the metering unit.

We tryed unplugging it when engine was hot and it made no difference to mixture.

Winger101

Right, I've replaced pump and checked wiring, I am getting the correct voltage to pump so not a problem there.??

Replaced coolant temp sensor (yellow)

Replaced dash coolant sensor (front of engine)

Have removed fuel computer gubbins from metering unit as possibly faulty

Have tried a different fuel ecu (black one)

Have tried a different main ecu (silver one)

BUT STILL GETTING PROBLEMS BELOW

Pink fuel relay getting very hot

Starts from cold idles lovely drives lovely.

Once warm and when I slow down on the approach to lights or junction the engine starts to struggle (hold back)

When I try to pull away it really struggles won't pick up....if I give it some stick it sometimes clears OR if I switch of the engine and stop then start it straight back up its absolutely fine........until I get to next lights/junction?

ANY IDEAS MOST WELCOME!!!!!?

haz87

Pink relay getting hot shows wiring has degraded or the pump is pulling too much current (just cause voltage is right doesnt mean all is well ) tho admittedly its usually the 100yr old wiring.
Have you checked your cold start injector isn't jammed open/leaking?

Winger101

I'm going to rewire the pump just to try and eliminate the hot relay..

And first thing tomorrow I'll pull cold start injector out and check for leaks etc!

Cheers I'll keep you updated

haz87

Just out of interest, what voltage were you seeing at pump? Full battery voltage (14~v)?

Winger101

11+volts on prime 9volts when turning over and 12volts when engines running!

I've also taken the TPS off to test its not faulty?

haz87

They are pretty low voltages tbh. Should be 12v+ at prime, and 14v~ at idle. Definitly rewire. Use the current relay as a trigger for a new battery fed relay

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Agree'd that is too low, should see alternator voltage 13.5v-14.5v'ish when running.

ST Turbo

Check your voltage levels at the battery aswel, as your battery/alternator could be breaking down!

Winger101

Just a quick update for you all, have completely rewired the pump and am getting correct readings now as you mentioned.

Fingers crossed that solves the hot relay and Seized pumps!,

Any ideas on the running problem, not sure how to test the TPS as I'm not convinced it's working right?

Winger101

Any one have any idea how to isolate the cold start injector? Not just unplugging it I want to cut fuel to it completely but temporarily as I think it may be leaking causing the horrific overfilling when engines warm! I have literally tried and replaced most components now and am pinning hopes on this injector!

She runs fine when cold but when warm over fuels to the point where it cuts out... Traits of a leaking injector maybe??

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

Without sounding harsh an experienced tuner with MFi will be able to sort this out within half an hour.

Winger101

Have been to my local RS specialist more than once and been towed home more than once and they can't figure it out! Hence me struggling on replacing it all bit by bit

milesy23rst

iTrader: (16)

As jano has said take it to someone that knows mfi and rs turbo's well as whoever is looking at it clearly doesn't know what he's doing

Winger101

Thanks for the advise, there is no one near me that knows MFI, without traveling a far way, hence methodically checking through it with the help of the online experts! Luckily I have a lot of patience

I can't be far now it's got to be something simple I'll update you once I've tried blanking csi

Winger101

Narrowing it down...

Car starts and runs like a dream, CO is perfect alls great...

...until she gets warmed up then she overfuels and cuts out

with the white plug DISCONNECTED from the Electro-magnetic pressure actuator on back of metering unit she will again run perfect even when hot...

...When I plug it back on when engines warm it just overfuels and cuts out almost immediately and won't start unless either you wait for engine to be stone cold or you pull white plug off and it will then fire straight up??

Any ideas about this EMP actuator what feed should it be getting etc and how to test it, I've tried another one and same problem So i think it may be wiring to it, ECU telling it to constantly give more fuel or something,, fine when engines cold but not when hot..

essexRSTSouthend

Sounds to me the fuel electro magnetic block has been messed with and shouldn't be touched unless by a serious expert who know's mfi like the back of he's hand. Or it could be a faulty fuel ecu ( black box ).

paul-h

That sensor should receive 12v

CTS should see 5v

My problem was that the plug for that and the CTS were swapped which blew the sensor. My tps was fooked and was causing it to chuck in more fuel. Don't know if this will help but it's something. As jano said though you should really see a speciallist. AVA had mines diagnosed in about 3 minutes of poking about with a multimeter...

paul-h

Ignore above post except the tuner bit. I am on about something else

Winger101

THINK I'VE FIXED IT!!!!

Running problems and overfueling when warm has now GONE.

Tested all the wiring from sensors to ECU etc and all seemed fine replaced a few tatty bits, then found the YELLOW coolant temp connected was missing its metal retaining clip!

So all the time I thought it was plugged in it actually wasn't all the way on so making no connection, made a retaining clip for it and hey presto fault with plugging Black box back in was gone.

Over the moon now!! Still a little struggle to start it when cold but I can live with that at the moment.

THANKS FOR ALL YOU ADVISE

Hope this helps someone else one day.

Winger101

yellow coolant temp connector (bloody spell check)

Red_bull

Nice that it's fixed enjoy the drive!