juffer

The reasons im asking the following questions is because im running a ZVH but the cam has failed. Rather than spending £300 on a cam a friend has offered me his ST170 for peanuts.
I know that the ST170 engine is basically the same as the zetec but can you use the ST water pump?

Would a rover inlet manifold line up with the ports the same as it does with a zetec E head and the same with the exhaust manifold?

Also can i use the st170 cams for turbo aplication?


Cheers

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Dont use the ST170 head as you'll have no control over the VVT and it will either sit fully retarded or fully advanced the whole time (cant remember which), get a black top head, drop the ST170 valve springs in and use the thicker FRS head gasket, job done.
Water pump is the same as a black top so yes can be used.
You can then use any of the differnet manifold options for both inlet and exhaust available for ZT's.

juffer

Cheers fro the reply Karl, I dont want to use the VVT so can this just not be disconnected?
Which way have you gone about your pullys and water pump?

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

You could but as above it will either be fully adv or rtd the whole time making for a crap drive.
I will be using a pulley on a bracket in place of the PAS pump, looked at enlarging the whole to retro fit a silver top pump but you need to take way too much material out for it to fit.

juffer

wouldn't standard silvertop or blacktop cams fit the ST head?

I think i saw a post where gary used a pully like your describing.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

I was thinking about that on the way to work this morning, im pretty sure you could use the ms2's boost pwm output to control the pwm vvt.... its just a normal table, rpm/load i haven't looked into this at all yet, but even if it doesn't work 100% the code change needed would be fairly simples....

Rick

No you can't Rob as PWM it isn't related to the cam position, but the rate at which it advances or retards.

Rick

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

I think we've had this conversation before haven't we Rick, and i've just forgotten about it lol

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Sadly no, the head is quite different and they dont fit or i would have done this! lol
Yeah thats how gary done his.

Rollinz

control the VVT from a relay and rpm switch, job done,

easy to do, the only hard part is in the mapping (dont know what ECU your using)

Rollinz

oh and the ST170 PORTS are massive in comparrison to zetec heads, so whatever inlet your using will fit but may need opening up and port matching

juffer

Strangely enough i think all of the above posters and me are using MS lol

I really want to use this head if i can. Its just this VVT getting in my way and i don't even want it lol. How exactly have you done this by using a relay and rpm switch?

Rollinz

i havnt but it can be done easily,

does MS have an rpm or boost related switchable output?

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Thats what we are all saying mate, an on/off switch isn't a good solution. You either have full advance or full retard. Properly controlling the st170's vvt doesn't seem to be as straight forward as many other systems.

Rob,

Rollinz

i had an ST170 engine in a mk3 escort runing on DTA s60 managment, with a switched output and it worked awsome,

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Gary ran it on/off as you suggest and said it was crap, which it would be as that is not how it's designed to run, it's continously variable and so needs to be or as said above it will swing from full retard to full advance which is not what you want at all!
Yes it will run/drive but the power/torque curve will be awful!
Laggy to start with then just as it starts to get nearer a more usable rpm for your cam timing you swing full the opposite way losing power and torque again!! Terrible idea!! lol

juffer

sounds like i will be using a black top head. It's a shame to write off a bloody good flowing head just because cams can't be changed or the vvt will not work.

crazycage

here are some pic,s of inlets for and exhaust manifolds for st70o and blacktop heads.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Thing is the head isnt good flowing if you change the cams and cant use the VVT! lol
Sell it Geoff, they are worth good money, mine went to Jamie at Jamsport for £225

Rollinz

I will say that when i had dta controlling my st170 lump it was just na, so turbo aplication would be diferent, but surley it could be locked and just work at whatever timing you set it to using a dti guage???

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

It's hydraulic so cant be locked easliy no, if you could then a happy medium might be doable....

Rollinz

What about timing it up in the "on position and keep and igniton live to the selonoid??

Theres ways around everything, just got to be determined enough to make it work

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

There is no on position thats the problem, it's continously variable hydraulic.

Rollinz

But it has a selonoid to live up, when that is 12v+ it goes to on??

Thats how we had it working on the dta ecu:/

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

lol Yes and thats then fully on or fully off isnt it!
The solenoid is PWM controlled (constantly opening and closing at a variable rate) based on engine RPM/load and continuously changes the oil pressure and timing as a result... It is not on/off or you would have the problems I mentioned earlier.

rhinopower

Leave the solenoid disconnected and set the cam for full lift at 110 degrees. That way you will have peak performance from the cam and no vvt hassles

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

If you set it for peak performance (power) then you'll suffer low down, the cam profile is not designed for static use so you will always lose out no matter where you put it.
In addition to this the head is a bit weak and not ideal for big power anyway, Simon from Sitech said the folowing when I asked him about it..

One of the reasons I went with a black top head in the end as I too originally wanted to retain the ST170 head and VVT.

mexicossie

Hey guy, pm me how much for the head