juffer

Me and a friend bought ms1 and ms2 ecu's as we wanted to go efi. We are trying to map the cars, well trying to get a decent idle for mot. My friends car is up and running so we are having a go. We cant get the car to idle correct unless we take all of the fuel out of the bins (all this is obviously being done over 70 deg C ) We have dropped the bins down to as low as 4 and the timing is set to 12 deg. If we raise the bins to 10 we are getting a lot of black smoke and lumpy running which is telling us it is rich.

At best we can only get 10.5 AFR which is way to rich for idle. We have read several manuals such as extra efi and mega manuals but what ever we try it isn't helping. I don't know if it makes a difference but a brief spec is below:

2.1 zetec turbo
480 cc H/I injectors
MS 1
21 psi map sensor

Cheers for the help.

Rick

what ecu. ms1 or ms2?

project rs

just had a look at our tune for the 2.1 we got and our idle figures are

manifold revs 800 1100 1600
25kpa 17 17 26
35kpa 18 20 29
45kpa 21 24 36

were on slightly bigger injectore and you should find it'll like idling around 15 afr, make sure your idle timings are all correct as somethings a miss

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Lol

Something funny isn't going on with any of the extra enrichment bits is it? and if you post up a screen print of your VE table im sure some one will let you know if it looks okay, be a good place to start.

Rob,

crazycage

your plugs wont like that lol.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

I cant remember if MS1 has a Req Fuel setting, but if it does then it sounds like that is too high, or your fuel pressure maybe?

studabear

As karlos says whats the fuel pressure like?

Rick

MS1 hasn't got the resolution to work with 480cc injectors. Greens are about the limit. You need to put an MS2 chip in there.

Rick.

Rick

I have one for sale too.

juffer

can't work out how to upload screen shots. E-mails sent to Karl and rick.

Cheers

juffer

just swoped the injectors to smaller 195cc to see if this corrected the problem and it has made a hell of a difference. We have now got it to idle around 14-15 AFR. So what is stopping us running larger injectors? is it as rick says and that it needs to be MS2 to run these?

When running the 480cc injectors the bins were as low as 4 to get a good AFR idle but with the 195 cc injectors there in there 20's. But every other map we have looked at has been around 20-30 on idle and nowhere near 4 !! Is there a reason why this is as low as 4 or dosen't this matter?

Rick

.

JesseT

Perhaps the injector opening time was too large.

MS1 with the extra code is not the optimum solution for running large injector in relation with a small engine, but 480cc injectors with a 2.1 engine shouldn't be that bad really.

What req_fuel did you run anyhow? Previously and now. The standard setting, if you are starting to tune from scratch, is 15. This would result in exactly what you desribed if you didn't correct it and just started to tune the VE map right away.

juffer

what do you mean required fuel? engine constants? did not see anyting with 15.

juffer

rick PM sent

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

I had no problems running 480cc VXR's on a 1.6 RST, should be fine on a 2.1

Looking at your map Geoff i'd turn the required fuel setting down to around 3.5 (currently at 7.3) and that should give you the resolution you need.
It's under Basic Setting, Engine Constants in Tuner Studio.

juffer

spot on karl. Its worked a treat !!!

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

No probs

juffer

I would never of guessed of going that low. Out of interest how did you come up with the figure?

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

lol
Ah... thats a secret

No only kidding, I just estimated based on how low your VE table values were to get the AFR any where near where it should be.

What sort of VE values do you have now at idle?

juffer

its idleing on 16 VE @ 35 KPA. it's running 14.5 AFR with no ICV nice and smooth. This is a friends MS1 ecu so would the same princables apply on MS2 as rick mentioned about frequenceys not being low enough on MS1.

crazycage

[QUOTE=Karlos G;5014866]I had no problems running 480cc VXR's on a 1.6 RST, should be fine on a 2.1

480cc is small on a zetec turbo but still good for upto 350ish hp.
i have no prob's running 780cc injectors on mine and it idles in the 14s all day long with no iscv.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Yes same applies to MS2 mate, you can play around with the req_fuel setting to get the VE resolution you want.

juffer

we are thinking of putting ICV on. In your oppinion is it worth having on and what settings is it to run one? There is the settings BG on/off and PWM.

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

CBA reading all these replies, make sure you have multiply map turned on, otherwise you lose resolution.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Yes otherwise your cold idle rpm will be really low.. around 600rpm depending which EFI manifold you have.
Settings are quite complex I can email you my map and you can copy them if you like?

juffer

yours is ms2 isn't it mate, are all the settings the same because there is a lot more options in the ms2 than the ms1.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Yeah i'm MS2, not sure how the settings compare, i've not looked.

juffer

could you please e-mail over your map so i can copy them please.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Sure..