10th_racer

does anyone know the torque settings for bolting the head back down with a studded block?

im assuming they would be the same as using normal headbolts but thought i better check first.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

No they are not mate, and they are also the cause of many a HG failure on CVH turbo's too!
But it's somthing like 30ftlb then 60ftlb IIRC do a search in this room been asked before a few times.

project rs

final torque of 60 as above just make sure you tighten in normal sequence

conor.rst

iTrader: (3)

HG failure ? whats that bud ?

MunkeyboyRS

Head Gasket failure.
I was told this to when I fitted to mine, but I didnt have a problems for the 6months the car was on the road with them fitted, only did about 3000miles tho.
To add the Karlos is a very good souse of info!

10th_racer

cheer's lads. wasnt aware of people having headgasket problems with them, the car's been fine up untill now so i'll leave them in and see how it goes.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Yeah a few peeps have had it happen on here, and also the big boys running 300bhp+ use standard stretch bolts with no failures so why risk it is my thinking! lol

essexRSTSouthend

better to be safe than sorry,using arp bolts always gets a thumbs up from me.Cant remember where i got my torque settings.most probably from here.So just do a search dude.best of luck.

muz

But if several people have had headgasket failure at high power with ARP headstuds, but standard Ford stretch bolts have proven to be fine then why use ARP items "to be safe" Should be the other way round. I'd put them on eBay and buy some Ford bolts personally.

essexRSTSouthend

Lol.Should of been fitted correctly then.errors happen.I personally wouldnt want to risk using standard ford ones for peace of mind.im also running cometic head gasket that people say are crap.ten thousand miles down the line with both fitted,they fine.Im just going by my own experience

muz

If you've had no problems fair enough, however I'll await Christians reply lol

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

LOL, here I am!! "Better safe than sorry" doesn't mean ARP's and Cometic Gasket on an RST. Safe is an OEM gasket and standard bolts.

essexRSTSouthend

lol.i shit hits the fan.just pure luck or total bad luck.I went down this route due to headgasket failure lol.by the sounds of it,its thd other way round for most which im suprised to hear.Im not running stupid power yet but enough to put things on edge.id personally do my nut if my headbolts didnt do their job.for the price tag!

essexRSTSouthend

not oem for me lol.I might learn one day.But far as im aware,they aint made for such stresses such as ford headbolts.Ive heard many times people using them on high power but me think it not worth thd risk.Your probably think it more risk going down my route.

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

Just seems odd that the ONLY head gasket I ever blew was the Cometic with the ARP's. They don't work well on the CVH because the Block and Head are made from different materials. Ford didn't spec stretch bolts because it wanted the weaker option. LOL. They were spec'd to be correct to allow for the different expansion rates.

Trust me, my OEM gasket/bolts was doing just fine at 350bhp and 171mph.

essexRSTSouthend

i do believe u mate.im not exactly going to strip my engine and get ford parts right now lol.Ill see how mine goes.ive done plenty of 150 To 160Mph runs without any fail.I think i remember you posting up your blown headgasket?

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

I do still have it I think.

I'm sure if you start out with freshly machined block and head surfaces, as per the normal MHG requirements, you'll be fine. You did do that, right?

Still don't understand trying to fix something that ain't broke.

essexRSTSouthend

Yes mate,the head was skimmed and worked on by cnc.Even the bottom block was given a skim.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Well you've given it the best chance of lasting then, so long as it's mapped correctly and your not running massive boost you may not have any probs

Christian and Beccy

iTrader: (14)

.....or you could go back to OEM parts, where you'll have no head gasket bother with 2.2 bar of boost.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

If it aint broke..... wait until it is! lol

essexRSTSouthend

erm lol.I blew the standard ford gasket running 19psi.Think they dont like me

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

erm... your head was warped, your fuelling was lean, you were detonating, you didnt lube the head bolts, you didnt skim the block, you didnt clean the threads, your timing was retarded, etc.. etc.. lol
Many many reasons for a HG failure, 99.9% of the time it is not down to the OEM HG

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

i have had no bad experiences with non stretch bolts, either on a cvh or zvh turbo.
that said, nothing wrong with ford oem gear at all, i use a payen headgasket still, same as Ford use and they just don't fail even with 23psi on my 1.8 zvh.

Canada1

The factory stretch bolts are fine for most applications. They do not require re-torquing.
The "stretch" provides enough clamp force after the engine has been through a few heat cycles and the gasket compresses fully.
If one uses ARP studs re-torquing after a few engine heat cycles is necessary.
Head gasket failure will result if one does not follow a re-torque procedure when using the ARP studs. I wish ARP would provide the re-torque recommendation. Most race engine builders re-torque the ARP studs after the initial engine warm up period.
Warm up engine to operating temp. Allow to cool down, and re-torque the ARP studs.
With the CVH 60 ft lbs is used.

Hope this helps.

Rick

Only failures for me, one very recent, have been on arp bolts. Don't see the point in risking as the std bolts never have an issue.

Rick

essexRSTSouthend

retorque is 60Ft in total then?

Canada1

Yes 60 Ft. Lbs. final torque.

The reason the puny Ford Factory stretch head bolts survive is the low power output achieved using a CVH head. The relatively poor head flow limits power production to 80 or 90 hp per cylinder - at best with 2+ bar boost.
For the CVH factory bolts and head gaskets are very adequate.

Differing engine block and cylinder head materials do not matter. The rally Zetec engines
used cast iron blocks and aluminum cylinder heads. Guess what - they didn't use Ford stretch bolts. They used ARP studs.

Rick

Actually, it's the poor thermal efficiency of the engine rather than flow that limits the CVH. Evidence seems to suggest that the ARP are suited to engine's with a limited number of heat cycles, ie not road engines.

Rick

Canada1

Hello Rick,

Poor thermal efficiency? Every combustion engine has relatively poor thermal efficiency.
Yes the CVH has an inefficient hemi combustion chamber, but the reason for low specific power output is dreadful cylinder head air flow.

What evidence are you referring to regarding limited heat cycles are suited for ARP studs?
Every road racing engine I have ever built ( including Cosworth 3 liter 405 HP NA engines)
have used ARP head studs. These engines were used for several racing seasons. Mainly
10 lap sprint races. My personal experience differs from yours.

mikeross

Really? I have not tried payen and my friend recommended it. I thought it was a not very popular brand so I thought ford oem parts just to be on the safe side.

mattseries2

iTrader: (1)

Payen are the same gasket as the Gen Ford ones, i recall someone saying Payen actually made the Ford ones?? I may be wrong...

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

That is the word on the street! lol