GT28 Range...
07-05-2010, 08:05 PM
#1
GT28 Range...
They spool faster being BB and presumably flow better being a much more modern design than our T3's....
So which of the GT28 range of turbo's is the best alternative to a Stage 3 T3 and why?
What is required to fit one to a RST manifold?
What i'm looking for is something that will respond as well as my Stage 2 T3, but with a less restrictive exhaust housing (to keep temps down a bit) and that's not right on it's limit all the time.
What I dont want is a turbo that will flow for 400bhp and not make boost untill 5000rpm!
lol
I have no experience with these so all info is appreciated!
Cheers!
So which of the GT28 range of turbo's is the best alternative to a Stage 3 T3 and why?
What is required to fit one to a RST manifold?
What i'm looking for is something that will respond as well as my Stage 2 T3, but with a less restrictive exhaust housing (to keep temps down a bit) and that's not right on it's limit all the time.
What I dont want is a turbo that will flow for 400bhp and not make boost untill 5000rpm!
lolI have no experience with these so all info is appreciated!
Cheers!
07-05-2010, 08:39 PM
#5
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07-05-2010, 09:08 PM
#6
Karl,
The BB thing is not quite as exciting as some would have you believe. I ran the GT28RS for a while, it's a REALLY nice turbo. It will do the high end of 200bhp and be lively. But lets not be unrealistic here, it won't be super responsive, just a little better than a T34 0.48, but not much.
Jai - I presume you start making boost at 2800? When do you have full boost?
The BB thing is not quite as exciting as some would have you believe. I ran the GT28RS for a while, it's a REALLY nice turbo. It will do the high end of 200bhp and be lively. But lets not be unrealistic here, it won't be super responsive, just a little better than a T34 0.48, but not much.
Jai - I presume you start making boost at 2800? When do you have full boost?
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07-05-2010, 10:13 PM
#9
Karl,
The BB thing is not quite as exciting as some would have you believe. I ran the GT28RS for a while, it's a REALLY nice turbo. It will do the high end of 200bhp and be lively. But lets not be unrealistic here, it won't be super responsive, just a little better than a T34 0.48, but not much.
Jai - I presume you start making boost at 2800? When do you have full boost?
The BB thing is not quite as exciting as some would have you believe. I ran the GT28RS for a while, it's a REALLY nice turbo. It will do the high end of 200bhp and be lively. But lets not be unrealistic here, it won't be super responsive, just a little better than a T34 0.48, but not much.
Jai - I presume you start making boost at 2800? When do you have full boost?
07-05-2010, 10:52 PM
#11
hmmm... Maybe i'll just stay as I am, dont want to loose my drivability!
If the GT28RS is only slighty better than a T34 .48, then it must be similar to a Stage 3 T3.......... which for me is too laggy.
I know project rs you say your T34 isnt laggy compared to a stock T3 but I dont have your manifolds, which seem to make a huge difference!
If the GT28RS is only slighty better than a T34 .48, then it must be similar to a Stage 3 T3.......... which for me is too laggy.
I know project rs you say your T34 isnt laggy compared to a stock T3 but I dont have your manifolds, which seem to make a huge difference!
07-05-2010, 10:55 PM
#12
and i would be happy with around 270/280bhp i think that would be immence in a s1 .....
07-05-2010, 10:58 PM
#13
hmmm... Maybe i'll just stay as I am, dont want to loose my drivability!
If the GT28RS is only slighty better than a T34 .48, then it must be similar to a Stage 3 T3.......... which for me is too laggy.
I know project rs you say your T34 isnt laggy compared to a stock T3 but I dont have your manifolds, which seem to make a huge difference!
If the GT28RS is only slighty better than a T34 .48, then it must be similar to a Stage 3 T3.......... which for me is too laggy.
I know project rs you say your T34 isnt laggy compared to a stock T3 but I dont have your manifolds, which seem to make a huge difference!
07-05-2010, 11:06 PM
#14
This is the sort of response I have right now, 14.7psi @ 2871rpm and 27.2psi @ 3250rpm...
I have bucket loads of midrange power and then it tails off to about 21psi by 6900rpm, such a drivable power curve that I dont really want to lose!
Although it doesnt spool quite so fast with this XR3i gearbox in as it did with the XR2 final drive ratio.
I have bucket loads of midrange power and then it tails off to about 21psi by 6900rpm, such a drivable power curve that I dont really want to lose!
Although it doesnt spool quite so fast with this XR3i gearbox in as it did with the XR2 final drive ratio.
Last edited by Karlos G; 07-05-2010 at 11:08 PM.
07-05-2010, 11:37 PM
#19
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Was temps the cause of the failure?
I'd be looking at coolers, coolants, rads, airflow.
That turbo shouldn't be giving you too much grief. And for me i'd be on a Stage 3 T3 or 4x4 Cossie T3 as a sensible cost effective step up if you need to.
I'd be looking at coolers, coolants, rads, airflow.
That turbo shouldn't be giving you too much grief. And for me i'd be on a Stage 3 T3 or 4x4 Cossie T3 as a sensible cost effective step up if you need to.
08-05-2010, 08:27 AM
#20
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last week you were trying to tell me that the gt2871.86 trim 56 would never do 400hp on any zetec !! even tho i have just pushed one to over that on my own car, this week you are saying the smaller gt2860rs will do 370hp strange.
08-05-2010, 08:29 AM
#21
My coolant never gets over about 95deg even when being thrashed, and my ACT's around 35deg (ambient temp of 25deg) so the whole engine runs nice and cool.
But without meassuring EGT's you never really know what your cylinder temps are like, would just be nice to know things are as safe as they can be.
08-05-2010, 08:40 AM
#22
Advanced PassionFord User
what intercooler you running karlos and you really should get an egt guage in your car as you would hate to have the head of again and it looks like you need to play with the settings in your boost controller to sort those boost spikes out nice and smooth to start with then a bit wobbly but thats a nice curve
08-05-2010, 08:49 AM
#23
Radtec mate, ACT's are fine i'm just trying to be ulta safe! 
lol
I guess you just drill the manifold and fit the sensor in there for an EGT gauge?
That graph is zoomed out to the max so it's not anywhere near as bad as it looks, it fluctautes by maybe 1-2psi, although I did find a leaking hose on the inlet manifold yesterday which wouldnt of helped!
15psi @ 2690rpm..
26psi @ 3137rpm
These are from my old gearbox and early maps (still had fuel to pull out and timing to add in) have not got any with my new box and injectors because of the noise problem using greys I have not been able to do anthing
But thats sorted now I have some high impedance injectors again!
Could you post up one of yours with the T34 on? I'd lke to see how thats making boost compared to my Stage 2 T3!!
lolI guess you just drill the manifold and fit the sensor in there for an EGT gauge?
That graph is zoomed out to the max so it's not anywhere near as bad as it looks, it fluctautes by maybe 1-2psi, although I did find a leaking hose on the inlet manifold yesterday which wouldnt of helped!
15psi @ 2690rpm..
26psi @ 3137rpm
These are from my old gearbox and early maps (still had fuel to pull out and timing to add in) have not got any with my new box and injectors because of the noise problem using greys I have not been able to do anthing
But thats sorted now I have some high impedance injectors again!
Could you post up one of yours with the T34 on? I'd lke to see how thats making boost compared to my Stage 2 T3!!
Last edited by Karlos G; 08-05-2010 at 09:09 AM.
08-05-2010, 12:17 PM
#26
15K+ Super Poster!!
Karl, does your car feel revvy? My first engine ran a CVH35 on a Std head and a stage 2 T2 at 20psi. The power came in with a bang, but it loved to rev and i liked the way it drover. You will get much MUCH better response with a std cam. Your engine, along with my old one was a compromise. On your logs, you can see the torque is dropping off quite a bit at the top - cam you see how the RPM plot is becoming less steep?
You have a big head and cam, but then a small turbo which is choking it. Or, you have a small turbo and big head and cam which are making it make boost higher up. I know why you've done it, to try and have power and response - but you are ultimately just condensing the power band.
Rick.
You have a big head and cam, but then a small turbo which is choking it. Or, you have a small turbo and big head and cam which are making it make boost higher up. I know why you've done it, to try and have power and response - but you are ultimately just condensing the power band.
Rick.
08-05-2010, 01:39 PM
#27
It does mate yes!
I've fucked about with standard cams (Ford and Pattern) and both have fallen apart very quickly so even if the profile is more suited to my setup it's not an option for me.
The power band to me feels really big, from about 2800rpm right through to 6500rpm'ish it pulls strong, will be interesting to see the actual torque curve when it's dyno'd.
If you look at my VE table it really drops after about 6500rpm, i've actually moved the limiter from 7050rpm to 6800rpm now as there was no point having it that high if the engine isnt breathing.
I've fucked about with standard cams (Ford and Pattern) and both have fallen apart very quickly so even if the profile is more suited to my setup it's not an option for me.
The power band to me feels really big, from about 2800rpm right through to 6500rpm'ish it pulls strong, will be interesting to see the actual torque curve when it's dyno'd.
If you look at my VE table it really drops after about 6500rpm, i've actually moved the limiter from 7050rpm to 6800rpm now as there was no point having it that high if the engine isnt breathing.
08-05-2010, 02:19 PM
#28
Karlos, i recently read about a ball bearing stage 3 t3 that apparently comes on boost nearly as well as a stage 2, Antti O on here has done a very nice TD03 turbo conversion which also seems to be a very nice compromise.
Rob,
Rob,
Last edited by Rob_DOHC; 08-05-2010 at 10:06 PM.
08-05-2010, 07:31 PM
#29
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Karlos, as you've said your setup/powerband etc looks really good tbh and you seem happy with it! Be interesting to see what your egt's are so you could put your mind at rest as to how safe the setup is, then you can just enjoy it till the turbo dies lol.
After finally sorting some springs and having some time mine will be back in for round 2 of mapping so i'll let you know how it goes as mine is on a stage 3 t3. But running the bar of boost it currently is i'm really pleased with how it makes boost (a little later than yours i'd say but full boost by 3.5k roughly i'd say) but too early to say how good it will be.
Unfortunately the bigger turbo's that continue to make more power at the top on our little cvh's will inevitably be laggy to a point but that's the decision you've got to make.
A friend of mine is trying a fairly 'different' turbo on his 1.6 and isn't far off being ready now which could be very interesting if it does what we're hoping for
After finally sorting some springs and having some time mine will be back in for round 2 of mapping so i'll let you know how it goes as mine is on a stage 3 t3. But running the bar of boost it currently is i'm really pleased with how it makes boost (a little later than yours i'd say but full boost by 3.5k roughly i'd say) but too early to say how good it will be.
Unfortunately the bigger turbo's that continue to make more power at the top on our little cvh's will inevitably be laggy to a point but that's the decision you've got to make.
A friend of mine is trying a fairly 'different' turbo on his 1.6 and isn't far off being ready now which could be very interesting if it does what we're hoping for
08-05-2010, 09:15 PM
#30
Yes mate let me know how you get on!!
For me it is all about low/midrange response and as you can see I have plenty of that right now so going bigger probably wont happen, but EGT monitoring is on the cards for sure!
Your mate's sounds interesting.... tell me more!!!
For me it is all about low/midrange response and as you can see I have plenty of that right now so going bigger probably wont happen, but EGT monitoring is on the cards for sure!
Your mate's sounds interesting.... tell me more!!!
08-05-2010, 10:14 PM
#31
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I will indeed mate!!!
My mate's is all top secret lol (joke), we're trying an evo twin scroll turbo/manifold on his new engine as a bit of an experiment as a (cheap) alternative to the Gt range.
I've also got the initial parts to do the conversion but as you can imagine the physical fitment is a bit of a nightmare and i decided to let him try it first in the end lol and see how it fares.
The guy who does my mapping thinks it should work pretty well but obviously until it's been mapped we won't know and unfortunately it's not going on the engine dyno as planned so i won't see the graphical evidence i was hoping to
My mate's is all top secret lol (joke), we're trying an evo twin scroll turbo/manifold on his new engine as a bit of an experiment as a (cheap) alternative to the Gt range.
I've also got the initial parts to do the conversion but as you can imagine the physical fitment is a bit of a nightmare and i decided to let him try it first in the end lol and see how it fares.
The guy who does my mapping thinks it should work pretty well but obviously until it's been mapped we won't know and unfortunately it's not going on the engine dyno as planned so i won't see the graphical evidence i was hoping to
10-05-2010, 11:38 AM
#32
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have a look at this for spool up time from wet bearing and ball bearing
http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/50vsgt40.jpg
i don't like ballbearing's they break easy i seen enought with snap shaft
a bit of spark plug coming off will damage the shaft and you wil need a new core
wear a old t3 you can replace the shaft which is cheaper
what a bout t28 from pulsar they the same as disco potato size
http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/50vsgt40.jpg
i don't like ballbearing's they break easy i seen enought with snap shaft
a bit of spark plug coming off will damage the shaft and you wil need a new core
wear a old t3 you can replace the shaft which is cheaper
what a bout t28 from pulsar they the same as disco potato size
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