FTAO Rick and any other MS users with Bosch 403 Grey Injectors SORTED NOW!
26-04-2010, 07:08 PM
#1
FTAO Rick and any other MS users with Bosch 403 Grey Injectors SORTED NOW!
Since fitting my Greys I'm getting regular VR signal drop off, the only other car I've experienced this on had a dead supressor on the coil pack so I know it is down to noise.
Did you have any probs after fitting greys to Project rs motor, are they a 'noisey' injector, and if so how did you get around it?
Thanks!
Did you have any probs after fitting greys to Project rs motor, are they a 'noisey' injector, and if so how did you get around it?
Thanks!
Last edited by Karlos G; 07-05-2010 at 03:25 PM.
27-04-2010, 04:18 PM
#5
15K+ Super Poster!!
I had them on my totally std 1600 with no supressor and it caused resets. However, this was on a totally knackered (ie from a scrap yard soaked in water) set of plug leads. I changed the leads to new ford and fitted the supressor and had no problem.
I had them on my ST engine until Richie robbed them lol, but that uses a peak and hold driver board so won't generate any noise.
On Richie's car, there is no supressor and it works very well. All ECU grounds inc sensors ground to the inner wing where the battery grounds. You should ideally be running your CPS wire away from any others, and especially away from injectors and plugs/leads.
What CPS wire are you using? I use microphone cable, it is very flexible, and double shielded. On Gary's Fiesta I had some slight noise issues, possibly to do with his 780cc low z injectors. The Gotech CPS wire didn't look to clever so i ran another using microphone cable and it's absolutely perfect as 12.8 @ 123 proves!
Rick
I had them on my ST engine until Richie robbed them lol, but that uses a peak and hold driver board so won't generate any noise.
On Richie's car, there is no supressor and it works very well. All ECU grounds inc sensors ground to the inner wing where the battery grounds. You should ideally be running your CPS wire away from any others, and especially away from injectors and plugs/leads.
What CPS wire are you using? I use microphone cable, it is very flexible, and double shielded. On Gary's Fiesta I had some slight noise issues, possibly to do with his 780cc low z injectors. The Gotech CPS wire didn't look to clever so i ran another using microphone cable and it's absolutely perfect as 12.8 @ 123 proves!
Rick
27-04-2010, 05:47 PM
#6
Thanks Rick!
I'm using the CPS wire that comes with the MS ECU loom and then extended it a bit using original ford CPS wire including joining the shielding.
It does run away from the rest except when it passes through into the car.
Where did you buy your Mic cable from, I could run a fresh length with no joins and see if that helps?!
All my earths are to the inlet manifold.
I'm using the CPS wire that comes with the MS ECU loom and then extended it a bit using original ford CPS wire including joining the shielding.
It does run away from the rest except when it passes through into the car.
Where did you buy your Mic cable from, I could run a fresh length with no joins and see if that helps?!
All my earths are to the inlet manifold.
27-04-2010, 07:39 PM
#7
15K+ Super Poster!!
Inlet isn't the best place for your earth really.
Set your meter to DC volts and measure the voltage between your inlet and the battery -ve.
Mic wire:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=133
Set your meter to DC volts and measure the voltage between your inlet and the battery -ve.
Mic wire:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=133
Trending Topics
28-04-2010, 05:10 PM
#9
Well i've ordered some of that mic cable and the reistors I need to convert Greys into Hi Imp which will sort it out for sure.
But I did check my earthings around the engine and bay, I get less then 0.5 ohm's of resistance everywhere (between Batt -ve and random locations), and 14v with the engine running (Batt +ve and random locations), again this is everywhere in the bay, block, gearbox, inlet, inner wings, bulkhead, etc..
I have also moved all my earths for MS and sensors to the battery negative terminal, the only thing earthing out to the manifold now is my oil temp sensor, and Lambda.
I do have less noise on my TPS now (as I had a litte fluctuating +/- 1 all the time), but I still get VR drop off's.
But I did check my earthings around the engine and bay, I get less then 0.5 ohm's of resistance everywhere (between Batt -ve and random locations), and 14v with the engine running (Batt +ve and random locations), again this is everywhere in the bay, block, gearbox, inlet, inner wings, bulkhead, etc..
I have also moved all my earths for MS and sensors to the battery negative terminal, the only thing earthing out to the manifold now is my oil temp sensor, and Lambda.
I do have less noise on my TPS now (as I had a litte fluctuating +/- 1 all the time), but I still get VR drop off's.
29-04-2010, 05:25 PM
#14
These mate http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=2181 i've bought the 4.6R but anything from 3-6R will be fine, you then run them as if they were high impedance (you probably already know all this, but just thought i'd elaborate in case you didnt).
What is interesting is that since fitting the mic cable the only logged run I did saw a RPM spike rather than a drop off like in the pic above, which is the first time i've seen this!
What is interesting is that since fitting the mic cable the only logged run I did saw a RPM spike rather than a drop off like in the pic above, which is the first time i've seen this!
29-04-2010, 05:46 PM
#15
15K+ Super Poster!!
Karl,
I asked to check if they would be ok - and they won't be!
You need a 25W minimum Power resistor. Grey's are 2.8 ohm average impedance. That together with your 4.6 ohm resistor makes 8.4 ohms total. Apply 13.8 V across it and it will pull around 1.65 amps. 1.65 amps at 12 volts means the resistor needs to dissipate 22W.
That is only a 10W Resistor. It will cook itself and likely to set itself or something near it on fire.
Rick
I asked to check if they would be ok - and they won't be!
You need a 25W minimum Power resistor. Grey's are 2.8 ohm average impedance. That together with your 4.6 ohm resistor makes 8.4 ohms total. Apply 13.8 V across it and it will pull around 1.65 amps. 1.65 amps at 12 volts means the resistor needs to dissipate 22W.
That is only a 10W Resistor. It will cook itself and likely to set itself or something near it on fire.
Rick
29-04-2010, 06:17 PM
#18
15K+ Super Poster!!
That calculation assumes 100% duty cycle, which you're not going to get to, however 10W still isn't enough.
Here you go:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/s...duct&R=0158503
Here you go:
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/s...duct&R=0158503
29-04-2010, 07:13 PM
#22
Spoke to Phil to see what he had to say and this was his reply...
"Hi Karl,
hmm, his Maths doesnt hold up, as you dont get 12V across the resistors, you get around 6, and it will be PWM at around 85% duty cycle max, but I do agree 10W is close to the limit.
Phil"
So perhaps the 10W ones are ok, and I have just spent Ł15 on those other ones unnecessarily!
I shouldnt be so fucking impatient!!
lol
But a bit more headroom is always handy I supose!
"Hi Karl,
hmm, his Maths doesnt hold up, as you dont get 12V across the resistors, you get around 6, and it will be PWM at around 85% duty cycle max, but I do agree 10W is close to the limit.
Phil"
So perhaps the 10W ones are ok, and I have just spent Ł15 on those other ones unnecessarily!
I shouldnt be so fucking impatient!!
lolBut a bit more headroom is always handy I supose!
29-04-2010, 07:54 PM
#23
15K+ Super Poster!!
Across the resistor you will get just over 8.5V if your batt voltage is 13.8. If you use a max duty cycle of 85% this gives you 13.6W. That's still more than 10W. The 25W resistors will be far more comfortable, and much better equipped to get rid of the hear. Think of the wattage of your soldering iron - you can solder easily with 12W - it's a lot of heat!
Rick
Rick
29-04-2010, 07:59 PM
#24
Yeah it is!
I'd rather be safe and have plenty of headroom anyway, it's a pain really cos i've got to chop my inlet loom at each injector to fit the resistors in, if I'd of known I would have looked for another high impedance injector to use..... again i'm always in a rush to get things done!
I'd rather be safe and have plenty of headroom anyway, it's a pain really cos i've got to chop my inlet loom at each injector to fit the resistors in, if I'd of known I would have looked for another high impedance injector to use..... again i'm always in a rush to get things done!
Last edited by Karlos G; 30-04-2010 at 06:45 PM.
29-04-2010, 08:02 PM
#25
15K+ Super Poster!!
i still think you could get round it without resistors. Have you tried turning on noise filtering? Also, slight fiddling with the CPS distance from the flywheel can have an effect.
Rick.
Rick.
29-04-2010, 08:09 PM
#26
No mate I havent, didnt know there was noise filtering, where is that?
Adjusting the distance from the fly is not an easy task, I think it's about as close as I can get without touching, but I will check!
What do you think of these http://www.regal-shop.co.uk/acatalog..._Upgrades.html it's what the VXR boys upgrade to, direct replacement, 630cc @ 3bar.
I can sell my greys and buy these!
Adjusting the distance from the fly is not an easy task, I think it's about as close as I can get without touching, but I will check!
What do you think of these http://www.regal-shop.co.uk/acatalog..._Upgrades.html it's what the VXR boys upgrade to, direct replacement, 630cc @ 3bar.
I can sell my greys and buy these!
Last edited by Karlos G; 30-04-2010 at 07:00 PM.
30-04-2010, 06:44 PM
#27
Have decided after rechecking all earths, 12v+'s, and trying evrything I can think of to just sell the Greys and buy the VXR upgrades, saves cutting up my inlet loom and fitting resistors.
Cheers for all your help Rick!
Cheers for all your help Rick!
Last edited by Karlos G; 30-04-2010 at 07:00 PM.
30-04-2010, 07:01 PM
#28
15K+ Super Poster!!
I hope you've not ordered long style! They are a bit slow opening at 1.14ms. My solution would have been to goto the peak and hold driver board, then you could have run sequential too.
Turn on the first stage of noise filtering in Basic settings, with a time of 0.2ms
Rick
Turn on the first stage of noise filtering in Basic settings, with a time of 0.2ms
Rick
30-04-2010, 07:09 PM
#29
They are 74mm same as the normal VXR ones mate.
I dont have noise filtering under Basic settings, if I click the Advanced tab Noise Filter Settings are there, a curve graph to adjust, currently all set to 0.
I dont have noise filtering under Basic settings, if I click the Advanced tab Noise Filter Settings are there, a curve graph to adjust, currently all set to 0.
Last edited by Karlos G; 30-04-2010 at 07:13 PM.
30-04-2010, 07:14 PM
#30
15K+ Super Poster!!
What software are you using?
If using the filter curve, try these settings:
RPM usec
500 300
2500 50
5500 18
7500 13
You can increase those numbers to filter more noise, but if you filter too much, you'll miss the correct trigger and the car won't rev properly.
Rick
If using the filter curve, try these settings:
RPM usec
500 300
2500 50
5500 18
7500 13
You can increase those numbers to filter more noise, but if you filter too much, you'll miss the correct trigger and the car won't rev properly.
Rick
01-05-2010, 11:47 AM
#36
lolStandard Bosch MFI pump as far as I know, if your still at 3bar the fuel pump should not make any difference unless the old one was struggling at high RPM's?
