Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

This car made 214.9bhp and 245ftlb @ 21psi on MFI, we then converted it to EFI running Megasquirt and I mapped it (First car I have completely mapped from start to finish), and it made 232bhp and 270ftlb @ 21psi so an extra 17.1bhp and 25ftlb just by going EFI!

MFI...



EFI...



Overall both me and RST Rob are very pleased with the results!

BTW These are flywheel figures, not at the wheels!

Spec of the engine is:

Standard Comp 8.5:1
Stage 3 T3
Kent CVH35
Airtec FMIC ACT's 30-35deg

Looking at the way the torque drops off as the revs increase I think either the standard head (no porting) or the Kent cam (worn out?) is restricting flow at higher RPM's, boost peeks at 23psi and holds 21psi right to the limiter 6500rpm so the torque spike is not caused by a boost spike....
I think with some port work and a Newmans cam we should break the 250bhp barrier.

As always... thoughts, questions and ideas are welcome!

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

how was the tune of the mfi?
i'm an efi fan and with a few tiny tweeks of the ignition/ve maps then there could be more in it.

andy130

iTrader: (2)

very good power for a cvh, do you think if the car was running OFAB it would have had the same results?

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

if it had a well mapped chip then probably not much in it. efi is efi really, not much in it on WOT for power runs, it's the speed it has to comitt to changes in pulsewidth and timing that is where the really differences are and how it can interpolate between these values.
but likely it'll only be small figures that separate the management systems.
the key is to get the mapping right for the system used.

project rs

are you running any advance on the cam and do you have the ve and spark tables you could post so we could have a nose

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Congratulations mate, a job well done.

Interesting to see the results 'back to back', and little things like the mfi making more torque at 2-3k, economy improved at all?

Rob,

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

What do you mean? lol
All depends on how it is mapped as xr2wishy said mate, the actual choice of management makes almost no odds.
No mate he has no vernier, but I would if he did as it would bring everything in a bit earlier!
Yes i'll post the maps at the bottom of this post!
Dont compare the RPM too much as it's way off (between 500 and 1000rpm), fuck knows why the MFI run stops at 5500rpm and the EFI run a 6000rpm.......... specially when the limiter is 6500rpm??!!! The RPM is estimated based on the operator holding the car at 70mph and inputing the RPM into the computer based on what the 20 year old tacho was reading on the dash!
TBH the operator hasnt got a clue, i've seen his attempts to map and his rolling road operation doesnt seem to be any better!

But if the MFI did actually make more torque midrange then maybe i'll experiement with a little less advance and see if it gets the turbo spooling a bit faster?!

Economy is going to be way up as the fuelling is correct midrange and not overfuelling like MFI!

Spark...



Fuel...

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

WTF lol rpm is based on the tacho lololol still a fucking ace result, will be interesting to see what a nice new cam and maybe a head etc do.

Rob,

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Yeah a lot of tuners do not use a proper pic up as it's extra hassle fitting it!
Certainly when you've got 30 cars to do at Ł30 each in a day!

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

Very interesting to see that!

Does it drive much better off boost too?

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

almost a joke ain't it, inductive pickup on an ht lead would do the job, granted coil on plug could be a problem.

RST_Rob

yes mate car is superb off boost now compaired to mfi, cant thank karlos enough for the ball ake mappin this car has been, Mainly down to shitty new components and bad wiring by me at one point but we got through it and im happy with the result! Next is hunting down a good head to get ported or one thats already been done and well!

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

There have been a few hurdles to overcome, but all worth it in the end!

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

I know lol just clip onto the coil lead, you can still get a signal with coilpacks, think its a case of clip the pickup onto cylinder 1 and multiply the signal frequency by 2(wasted spark) or 4...... takes two seconds to hook one on! Not sure how it gets on with ignition advance etc with accurate RPM figures but its got to be closer than a 20 year old tacho.

Rob,

Chris69

Nice result must be a very quick car on teh road now!
looks good for your build with the better head etc Karlos.

edit- wot kinda A/F ratio was the car mapped at?

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Yeah it is quick! I can only imagine what the 300-350bhp boys RST's must feel like!!
I would expect mine to be spooling at lot quicker, being a Stage 2 T3 and as you say with the headwork too, but BHP wise around the same i'd expect cos a Stage 2 T3 is only good for about 240bhp max..... would be nice to make that though! lol
Idle AFR is around 13.6:1, on boost 11.8:1, cruise 14.0:1 mate.

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

it's a bit rich on cruise really, economy can't be that great.

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

compared to the 13:1 (or worse) it was probably doing before on cruise, over 200 brake on MFI means it was shit rich off boost

H7 CYA

iTrader: (3)

excellent results... you must be well chuffed!

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

very true indeed!
megasquirt is a good bit of kit and you can save a load of fuel on over-run settings too in certain conditions, but making sure it's not mega hot and you shut all the fuel is a pain to get spot on.
i've got mine up to 30 miles to a tenner now lol!
so easy to be on boost though and it ruins economy, on a long cruise though70 miles has been done to Ł10, so it's a driving style problem i fear....

Chris69

did you need to got that rich on idle to get it to a nice smooth idle or something?
or are you playing it safe/rich after that bit of advice you got from nms after the head problem?
just asking as i know mine idles at around the 15:1 mark and is fine/smooth like that.

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

to keep inlet temps down you need to drop idle mixture down, i had mine at 14.9-15.1 at various stages and have been plagued with heatsoak on mat sensor, so was suggested to run less advance and enrich the idle a bit. it has helped a little, but i think a different type of sensor would be better, plastic rather than metal, may look into ripping a sensor apart and mounting in a nylon bush or something.

Chris69

makes sense, cheers for the info

fiend

iTrader: (1)

I have a video of it on the dyno at Frost from yesterday, if you would like me to post it?

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Not for an RST it isnt, Karl Norris told me to tune it to 14.0:1 cruise as they like to be slighty rich and it helps to keep temps down.
I've seen MFI cruise in the 11's!
Yeah any leaner and idle was crap, also he is not running a ICV which doesnt help.
Cruise is as per NMS but not idle, was just to get it smooth.
If you like mate yeah!

RST_Rob

Was yours the red fezzie turbo? if so that was fooking lush and very very mint!!

fiend

iTrader: (1)

Yeah that was mine, cheers.

I think I need to turn my boost up, my engine is pretty much the same spec as yours and I'm only running 10-12psi.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftmNZtzEk08

Your Escort sounded like a plane taking off on the dyno, was awesome!

I may have a video of the second run aswell, will have a look and upload it.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Why did you hold the camera on it's side? lol
Are you EFI, what management are you running, whats your full spec fella?

fiend

iTrader: (1)

I didn't think about that at the time, then when I put them on the computer they were all sideways. lol

I got two pics aswell..





My spec is:

Standard management (EFi) with an MSD 195 Chip. (I guess thats holding me back)
Kent Cam/Vernier Pulley
T3
701 Injectors
Uprated fuel pump
FMIC

project rs

forgot to mention that at 4000 and 186% load i'm on 26 compared to your 20 so maybe you need some proper det cans or an egt so you can see the outcome of some more ignition maybe thats why mine seems to spool quicker

Rob_DOHC

iTrader: (4)

Whos, who in the photo then?

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

I have det cans and it's really clear when Det is present, it is hard to compare maps really as your engines VE will be totally differnet to Robs........ would still be interested to see the tables though!

Chris69

wot power did you make at that spec? have you still got a standard t3?
just wondering how it performs as the msd chip is supposed to be the business for frst efi

RST_Rob

Yeah is a tad loud when the turbo spool's up lol. Where abouts you from as never seen your car before?

fiend

iTrader: (1)

It made 195bhp and 200lb/ft, Rindy said I could probably get 200bhp just by moving the air filter to a better location!

I'm not 100% sure what stage turbo I have, it has a .48 housing so maybe a stage 3?

I'm from Bury St Edmunds, the Fiesta doesn't really come out the garage that often. lol

d4 rst

WELL DONE MATE YOUR SOON BE READY FOR THE ROAD.YOU DONE ALL YOUR SELF.

Antti O

Karlos, you would easily break 250bhp with good turbo. My car gave 267.3bhp with 20psi too. In my spec is nothing exotic just basic engine. Even the head is ported in the old farmhouse by my friend. Altough he know what he is doing.. Comparing old T03 garrett and mitsubishi is so difficult. Mitsu spools maybe little later than garrett (.36 exhaust) but there is so little difference. I would say that t03 with .48 exhaust housing is more laggy than my mitsu td04. Td04 is pulling so strong even in the near limiter. Now the problem is traction. Car spin wheels 1-2 gears just when floor the throttle down. Try one and you never go back to old t03 turbos. If you have some symbian & gps phone try racechrono and test 100-160kmh time. My rst did it 5.59 seconds and there was little uphill in the road. Measuring was bit difficult because my car spins wheels first and second gear so i have to start run in 3 gear and 80kmh i think it is something like 50mph so the turbo takes moment to spool.

By the way about those mixtures, i have 12.2 afr when 20psi boost and full throttle. In nice cruising afr is between 14-15 and in the idle 14.0 about the car ticks nice with about 18 degrees of idle advance. I use that idle valve too in closed loop mode. I think my engine idle is so good as you can get with piper 285t2 cam. With standard cam it would idle even leaner.
Hmm those ms2 maps are new for me, is that "ignload" or something same thing as map pressure in kpa? Like 200 kpa is 1.0 bar

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

Antti that T3 is good for 260+bhp mate, I think either the head or the cam is the restriction.
Your on boost AFR is too lean should be around 11.8:1 you'll be running very hot!
Yes Ignload is MAP in KPA.

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

12.2 won't necessarily be too bad, depends on timing a little too.
i used to run 12.5 AFR on a carbed turbo without any failures.

Karlos G

iTrader: (4)

It may not be but all the big boys say to tune to 11.8:1, APT, NMS, TOTD, so thats what i'm going to do........ dont want to risk my engine!
It's only a small difference but a bit of headroom is never a bad thing, depending on what fuel you were mapped on and what your using at the time it could mean the difference between detonating and not.

Just want to be safe....