Well.......CAUSE FOUND!!!!
02-10-2009, 08:49 PM
#41
Custom
he means the clearance between valve and rocker arm when you adjusted your lifters
if these are slightly too tight the valve wont seat properly and become very hot
if these are slightly too tight the valve wont seat properly and become very hot
03-10-2009, 04:50 PM
#44
SHIT 
I would strip the engine now that you've found that buddy!
Looking at your bore i think if it were mine i would re-bore... as i don't think a honing tool will remove the majority of the damage...
Rob,
I would strip the engine now that you've found that buddy!
Looking at your bore i think if it were mine i would re-bore... as i don't think a honing tool will remove the majority of the damage...
Rob,
Last edited by Rob_DOHC; 03-10-2009 at 04:55 PM.
03-10-2009, 04:58 PM
#47
Nope IMO ZVH is a big waste of time unless you have the money to have a big valve stage 3 head, a big turbo, and a good gearbox to take the extra torque! lol 
For the price (if done properly) may as well go full Zetec turbo, just my opinion of course!
For the price (if done properly) may as well go full Zetec turbo, just my opinion of course!
03-10-2009, 06:18 PM
#52
Wahay!! I've lost my Virginity!!
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What does it mean if your manifold is glowin? my esrt running 18psi of boost i can get the manifold to glow after a trash. is it safe, it dont matter now its being rebuild but not because of this
03-10-2009, 08:26 PM
#54
or just normal, i'v ehad them glow a few times, and to be honest i've had good and bad setups and all have done it at some point.
too small a tubo housing can cause this by not flowing gases fast enough.
good news on the bottom end Karlos, well sort of, zvh would be a good intermediate step, but would cost a bit more than cvh. full zetec is where it is for the most potential, but alas even more cost than either of the other options.
03-10-2009, 08:53 PM
#57
03-10-2009, 09:23 PM
#58
Part of the initial calibration of an ECU is to make sure that the timing value in the live data is the same as the actual amount measured at the engine. Hence if you share timing maps, you need to be sure that you have the sorted and that the person you got the map from had that sorted too.
But the base timing was checked with a light at idle so the values in the map are indeed correct
03-10-2009, 10:32 PM
#59
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
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04-10-2009, 12:26 AM
#61
I think you may be able to save it for NMS on this occasion, i've taken the head to two engineering companies this afternoon and I guy I know that has a lot of experience with Cossie heads and they all think that too much material being removed from behind where the seat sits has caused the failure, the impact of the valve seating has gradually knocked the seat through what material there was behind the seat until it dislodged.
04-10-2009, 10:08 AM
#62
Well diagnosed at least, sorted............. give me a couple of weeks she'll be running again! 
Yeah is good new Sean!
High EGT's are caused by too much timing retard, Det is caused by too much advance.
As I said above not really a fan of ZVH's but just my opinion.
Plan so far.............
Strip this new bottom end wednesday, meassure and inspect the crank journals, order up some shells, and get it reground if needed.
New rings, a honing tool, head bolts, and full Payen gasket set are already on there way, just need a EFI flywheel now! Ditching the trigger wheel setup as I can just drill the block as it's out and fit a CPS to that, much tidier!
could be underfuelling or too much timing advance.
or just normal, i'v ehad them glow a few times, and to be honest i've had good and bad setups and all have done it at some point.
too small a tubo housing can cause this by not flowing gases fast enough.
good news on the bottom end Karlos, well sort of, zvh would be a good intermediate step, but would cost a bit more than cvh. full zetec is where it is for the most potential, but alas even more cost than either of the other options.
or just normal, i'v ehad them glow a few times, and to be honest i've had good and bad setups and all have done it at some point.
too small a tubo housing can cause this by not flowing gases fast enough.
good news on the bottom end Karlos, well sort of, zvh would be a good intermediate step, but would cost a bit more than cvh. full zetec is where it is for the most potential, but alas even more cost than either of the other options.
High EGT's are caused by too much timing retard, Det is caused by too much advance.
As I said above not really a fan of ZVH's but just my opinion.
Plan so far.............
Strip this new bottom end wednesday, meassure and inspect the crank journals, order up some shells, and get it reground if needed.
New rings, a honing tool, head bolts, and full Payen gasket set are already on there way, just need a EFI flywheel now! Ditching the trigger wheel setup as I can just drill the block as it's out and fit a CPS to that, much tidier!
04-10-2009, 11:04 AM
#63
YES I KNOW I CANT SPELL
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good news mate make sure you take loads of pics as you go along lol. where did you get your 5th gear puller btw? im gonna take this box apart to conferm what it is lol
make sure you take loads of pics as you go along lol. where did you get your 5th gear puller btw? im gonna take this box apart to conferm what it is lol
04-10-2009, 11:09 AM
#64
Well i got a 3 legged puller from ebay and that did the trick after a bit of heat.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Reversible-Pul...d=p3286.c0.m14
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Reversible-Pul...d=p3286.c0.m14
04-10-2009, 03:50 PM
#66
Custom
04-10-2009, 04:10 PM
#73
YES I KNOW I CANT SPELL
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06-10-2009, 07:26 AM
#77
Latest response from NMS..........
Hello Karl,
Oli has been dealing with your correspondence until now, and has brought me (Karl) up to speed with your problems.
I’m still waiting on seeing the head myself, but in reply to your last statement regarding the land beneath the seat, this is in fact what all cvh heads are like once they are ported. (And I have ported literally hundreds of CVH heads). If you look at a cvh head as standard the lowest portion of the exhaust port is at the same depth as the seat insert, and thus it is impossible to have full material beneath the valve seat on the short side turn. (This is because the insert depth is level with the port base and hence to get a smooth turn into the exhaust port requires the land behind the seat to be removed.) If you inspect a std CVH head you will see it has a very sharp ridge there to give a small amount of extra land behind the seat.
This however has never been of any issue with regards to seats falling out. The only issue it can cause is mild valve seat recession, which on heads where this does occur, we resolve by the fitting of oversize seats giving more land for the insert to sit on. This still leaves little land on the short side turn simply due to how low the exhaust port is. It is in any case the material around the circumference of the seat that holds the insert in, NOT the land behind it. Seats are fitted with around 4 thou interference, by both heating the head and shrinking the insert. The cause of inserts falling out is always excessive heat, although it has never happened on a CVH before, so this is a first!!
My recommendation based on the photos (which I will confirm once I have seen the head in person) is that we fit eight oversize seat inserts with maximum interference fit, which will ensure the seats are as tight as possible and the chamber can easily be repaired. I will speak to you again once I have inspected the head.
Best regards,
Karl
My reply........
Thanks for the explanation Karl, the courier is booked for collection tomorrow so the head should be with you Wednesday or Thursday at the latest!
If the head can be repaired then that is great, I assumed with that sort of damage it would be written off?!
Just something else to note and may be of relevance to this situation, when the Newmans cam and Solids were fitted there was not enough adjustment in the lifters to create any clearance at all between the lifter and rocker arm because of how recessed the valves are in the head, to overcome this David (Newman) suggested he send me out lifter adjuster bolts that have been skimmed to give the needed clearance and said this had only happened before on heads that had extensive valve work.
I don’t know if this relevant but thought it worth mentioning?!
Thanks,
Karl.
So just waiting now to see what happens when they get the head and inspect it in the flesh!
Hello Karl,
Oli has been dealing with your correspondence until now, and has brought me (Karl) up to speed with your problems.
I’m still waiting on seeing the head myself, but in reply to your last statement regarding the land beneath the seat, this is in fact what all cvh heads are like once they are ported. (And I have ported literally hundreds of CVH heads). If you look at a cvh head as standard the lowest portion of the exhaust port is at the same depth as the seat insert, and thus it is impossible to have full material beneath the valve seat on the short side turn. (This is because the insert depth is level with the port base and hence to get a smooth turn into the exhaust port requires the land behind the seat to be removed.) If you inspect a std CVH head you will see it has a very sharp ridge there to give a small amount of extra land behind the seat.
This however has never been of any issue with regards to seats falling out. The only issue it can cause is mild valve seat recession, which on heads where this does occur, we resolve by the fitting of oversize seats giving more land for the insert to sit on. This still leaves little land on the short side turn simply due to how low the exhaust port is. It is in any case the material around the circumference of the seat that holds the insert in, NOT the land behind it. Seats are fitted with around 4 thou interference, by both heating the head and shrinking the insert. The cause of inserts falling out is always excessive heat, although it has never happened on a CVH before, so this is a first!!
My recommendation based on the photos (which I will confirm once I have seen the head in person) is that we fit eight oversize seat inserts with maximum interference fit, which will ensure the seats are as tight as possible and the chamber can easily be repaired. I will speak to you again once I have inspected the head.
Best regards,
Karl
My reply........
Thanks for the explanation Karl, the courier is booked for collection tomorrow so the head should be with you Wednesday or Thursday at the latest!
If the head can be repaired then that is great, I assumed with that sort of damage it would be written off?!
Just something else to note and may be of relevance to this situation, when the Newmans cam and Solids were fitted there was not enough adjustment in the lifters to create any clearance at all between the lifter and rocker arm because of how recessed the valves are in the head, to overcome this David (Newman) suggested he send me out lifter adjuster bolts that have been skimmed to give the needed clearance and said this had only happened before on heads that had extensive valve work.
I don’t know if this relevant but thought it worth mentioning?!
Thanks,
Karl.
So just waiting now to see what happens when they get the head and inspect it in the flesh!
06-10-2009, 12:17 PM
#79
indeed, at least they are not saying... fuck off, not my problem all your fault etc.
However Karl does seem to have taken the stance that it is not his fault..... i actually disagree with some things he has said, but maybe see what his reply says...
Rob,
However Karl does seem to have taken the stance that it is not his fault..... i actually disagree with some things he has said, but maybe see what his reply says...
Rob,
06-10-2009, 12:22 PM
#80
Head should be with them tomorrow so we'll soon see, hopefully they will sort it out so I have at least not lost the £644 I spent with them on the head!
Latest email:
In reply to the comments regarding valve seat height, (you quote “ because of how recessed the valves are in the head”) although the seats have been recut in your head, the valve heights are very similar to standard as I check this on every head I do, to ensure they are within usable tolerance. Obviously these heads are getting very old now and thus have often had the seats cut before hand, but your head was checked by myself and found to be within good tolerance. With regards to the solid follower problem, this is in fact an issue with Newman cams NOT your head as we have also had this problem with all their latest solid followers. This problem was brought about due to Newman increasing both the thickness of the top screw head, and increasing the thickness of the lock washers, whilst the follower body has remained the same length. (12 months ago their followers were different to this). This means that they have increased the minimum fully closed length of the follower, but they have not reduced the cam base circle to increase the adjustment range, and thus we too have had this same issue. We have fixed this problem by using a thinner lock nut to give the extra clearance, but the correct fix should either be a shorter follower body or a smaller cam base circle.
I’ll await your head later this week for inspection.
Best regards,
Karl
Latest email:
In reply to the comments regarding valve seat height, (you quote “ because of how recessed the valves are in the head”) although the seats have been recut in your head, the valve heights are very similar to standard as I check this on every head I do, to ensure they are within usable tolerance. Obviously these heads are getting very old now and thus have often had the seats cut before hand, but your head was checked by myself and found to be within good tolerance. With regards to the solid follower problem, this is in fact an issue with Newman cams NOT your head as we have also had this problem with all their latest solid followers. This problem was brought about due to Newman increasing both the thickness of the top screw head, and increasing the thickness of the lock washers, whilst the follower body has remained the same length. (12 months ago their followers were different to this). This means that they have increased the minimum fully closed length of the follower, but they have not reduced the cam base circle to increase the adjustment range, and thus we too have had this same issue. We have fixed this problem by using a thinner lock nut to give the extra clearance, but the correct fix should either be a shorter follower body or a smaller cam base circle.
I’ll await your head later this week for inspection.
Best regards,
Karl
Last edited by Karlos G; 06-10-2009 at 12:24 PM.