JaPPster

hello!

guys, i need you experts big time!

my friend is gonna tune his escos to approx 700bhp, because we are a bit of a greenhorn, when comes to escos tune up, your help is priceless

please make a list what kinda tuning gods to put in, we shall do exactly as you guys recomend, this project depends on you!

THANK ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cheers Simon, Europe

Damo V

FIrstly ensure you have at least £50k in the bank to cover all mods

Simon Day

DaveEscos

700? a bit of a steep aim when you confess to knowing not a lot about tuning an escos...

i wouldnt bother, get a ferrari or a porsche instead.. or an E46 m3 csl.. not the same league of power but a sweet car nontheless

700bhp will cost you over £40k

JaPPster

40k

u guys r jocking, right ?!

its gonna be for draging, brakes are already stroger, also shocks&springs
(eibach/bilstein), we are concentrating for engine and box only...

only smart advices, please

thx

Damo V

Driveshafts, props, Box engine loom, guages, blahblah 40k PLUS EASILY

20 for engine turbo etc, 15 for box etc

C COS

Go for a nice 500bhp which will cost between 12-15k if done properly, and add another load of cash for the gearbox/diffs

A nicely tuned 500bhp motor with the right set up will be as quick on the road as any Japcrap claiming 12000bhp

Simon Day

Trust me! the advice from these guys is smart and on the ball!

Hope you have deep pockets!

JaPPster

well money is not the problem here, i mean it is, but not the main issue
he's pretty loaded...

ok, let me say this way, he's looking for 8-9sec@quater mile, how much ponyes for this target?

Simon Day

You will need a drag-car for 8 ses!!!

JaPPster

cossie cant beat 9ces quater pass?

Simon Day

I don't think so?

yrkesman

If you don't know much about Cosworth engines, I think best choise for you and your friend could be to contact some know Cosworth expert and quote them for a price. 400bhp is easy and quite cheap, 500bhp costs a bit more and need some thinking and when you go beyond it things get much harder and the cost go way up.

Simon Day

If I am correct not many cars, ferrari's / porsches / TVR's can get near 10secs let alone 9secs

JaPPster

yeah, we kinda figured 500ish is a low cost limit, everything up is big money...

Simon Day

Lets get one thing straight 500bhp is not low cost!!!!!
You are still talking serious bucks!

THE RADMAN

iTrader: (2)

neither is 400! looking at £5k at least

Simon Day

7K - 450bhp - then new gearbox

yrkesman

If the basic engine is in good condition. So what do you need for 400bhp for example? I think you don't need anything but bigger turbo (600£?), injectors (200£) and chip(200£), bigger cooler (200-300£?) and 3"exhaust (450£). That's just max £2k. Standard engine (cams etc) will do fine. These are all almost bolt-on parts so you can do them yourself. Ofcourse if you need to rebuild the engine, get new clutch, new gearbox, etc, it will cost you bit more, but I think £5k is alot of money. Where do the rest of the money go ?

DaveEscos

put it this way, John Tebenham's cosworth YB engine reached 7.7 seconds on a 1/4 mile drag race @ 170.5 miles an hours becoming the new world record for the fastest 4 cylinder YB cosorth engine

the engine is rebuilt to latest spec and produces a reliable 859BHP on Julian Godfrey Engineering Superflow Dyno.

i wouldnt expect much change from £60k!

that is smart ADVICE

Damo V

5k PLUS IMO

I paid 5K+ for 375Brake

New block and longstudding 1k ish???? plus bore machining?
New pistons PLUS machining to low comp and valve cutouts 300 ish
turbo rebuild 350ish (for 400 plus you would ideally go bigger than std so dont expect much change from 8-900£)
big wing baffled and windage tray sump 300ish
minor head work 200ish (plus lifters)
STD cams (New ones for 400+)
New injectors 200ish?
Live map on Dyno 7-800ish
pectel board/chip 250ish
Gasket set
WRC HG 400ish
OIL pump 150ish
cant remember what else, though obviously some labour

On top of that I bought
new clutch fuel rail fuel reg pectel wiring loomblah blahh blah loads of stuff which came in at a further 3-4k... And I kept it sensible

yrkesman

Your spec is more likely to some engine that has 500bhp or more. Like I said if the engine is in good condition getting 400bhp doesn't need 5k. 400bhp doesn't need (in my opinion) headwork, big wing baffle, long studding or low comp pistons. Why should one buy new block and cams, if the old ones are fine? For about 600-700£ I can get new turbo (Holset or Garrett) from Finland that flows enough air for ~600bhp. We have many +400bhp cosworths here with basically standard engine. Standard pistons will do fine (I think they can handle more than 500bhp). I have never understood why you always use low comp pistons? Valve cut outs machining won't cost here in Finland more that ~50-70£ if I remember correctly.

I'm not picking a fight, I just don't understand where you spend all your money

Damo V

correct my bottom end is good for 500+, I didnt buy new cams though just the original ones

yrkesman

I know one Escort Cosworth from Finland that has 9:1 compression and it has more than 600bhp, so I don't see any point for going low compression. You just need to use more boost and you get even more lag than with normall/higher compression. People we are not in the 80's anymore

Damo V

I didnt say you HAD to go low comp

yrkesman

No you didn't but why did you use low comp?

Damo V

because my engine builder specced it for me, I just paid him

The brief was "A SAFE strong reliable 350+" SAFE and RELIABLE were the key aspects for me

That'll be the same engine builder who builds MANY High comp rally engines.. you may have heard of him, Harvey Gibbs

yrkesman

I may have heard that name So that is one very safe engine. My point just was that you don't need THAT safe(=expensive) engine for about 400bhp. You could have just used good condition standard cossie engine.

Damo V

you dont even want to know what condition my old engine was in before I went to him

yrkesman

One major point is that I always try do everything myself. I let professionals do the head porting and machining, but the all rest I do myself. I just spoke with a friend of mine about these costs and he also told that standard bottom end is good for over +500bhp, when it is working like it should and it doesn't necesarily need even balancing (since the standard cosworth parts are really good quality) if you don't rev it much higher than it standard does. My point is that if you want 400bhp engine, you don't need very complicated and expensive modifications if all the basics are ok.

GAZ345

if your after big power, this guy will tell you what you need

http://www.racetuners.com/html/julia...ering__hi.html

Simon Day

James-W

And you forgot to add you get fuck all power off boost on a high comp engine.

James-W

JT's engine had a 30k "freshen up"

extra18

When i had my engine rebuilt i went low comp too for the simple reason that if i ever came across a propely specd head then the bottom end was already done. Its also far safer if your running big boost.

wimwerf

for 700bhp.....you need at least nikasil liners..which cost for an extra 1300 pounds fitted to the block....

you need a gt40 turbo....well something bigger then a gt35....a lot of revs for a 2 litre....or go for a stroker engine...

maybe you should ask martin hadland what will cost for 700bhp....he is building such an engine right now...and believe me...its expensive...

if you have to ask all these questions maybe its better to let someone build it for you...

James-W

Martins engine has just cost him 20k and he will have got them trade price.

Damo V

Where did you get that figure from?

James-W

Martins new engine is going to have a nine on the front and thats still going to be road legal.

James-W

Yawn and have to run stupidly expensive race fuel or methanol. Agreed methanol isnt expensive but you will have fuck all engine life anyway.
Does your mate want a 8 second car for competition or for fun?
If you want it for fun I would suggest an engine something like this

Low comp 7:2:1, T4, l&b bottom end, ported head, cams etc touring car spec with 100 shot of nos. Kev sharp ran 10.3 on a car of a similar engine spec on a road car not stripped out. If its going to be a drag car then it will be stripped out. So if you get a well built engine to above spec stripped out interior really good gearbox and diffs and slicks then you will easily manage a nine.

Concentrate on the gearbox/suspension/weight setup remeber power is nothing without control.