Rolls

iTrader: (2)

HI Guys -

After some help / advise on how much car is running...
Basically its decieded that it wants to play silly buggers when being driven, and will stutter reasonably regularly.. - when it does the rev-counter goes nuts.
Its got a coil pack conversion (new leads, plugs, coilpack and 1 new ig.amp) and idles lovley and apart from the stutter runs fine. I've not driven the car hard at all since fitting the coilpack conversion as i've fitted a new cooler at the same time, so want to get the car setup ASAP
Its got a new ACT sensor, new CPS, gaped to 0.8mm as per Stu's advice, and I have also got a new ECT and phase sensor to fit (0.2 mm gap, yeah?).
The plugs on the inner wing are gone, and soldered / taped up, so in theroy they shouldn't be playing up, the car has a new fuel filter, and the multiplug at the back of the car for the fuel pump has been replaced and soldered as was fubar'd. The injectors have been taken out, cleaned and flow tested (cheers Phil, and the Diva for an injector! - I owe you a few beers!)
The only thing i've not done that I need to do is re-set the ECU, and get the car to lean its values again...

What else could it be? - worth testing the TPS? - if so, how?
Map sensor - could this give these symptoms- again, work testing?
Any other ideas as i'm starting to run out of thinks that I can think of... I will chuck the old CPS on as well just to be sure as I've read this is the most common cause of rev-counters messing about..

Any help / ideas much appreciated

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

Anyone at all?

redrsmk5

Wish i could help you mate only thing i could suggest is getting it to MSD???? dont know if thats viable option for you

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

Tried that - was supposed to be going in there on wednesday, but it seemed to be getting much worse on the M25, so had to knock it on the head
Stu was extremely helpful on the phone, and the car WILL defo be going there once its running ok

redrsmk5

Can you trailer it there Rolls???? Hire one or find a mate with a towbar and some free time Better still if youre in the AA or RAC pretend to break down and when they come and ask you where you need to go you say "blackpool please "

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Rev counter jumping back could be:
1. CPS
2. Phase sensor
3. Ignition amplifier

If you have a new CPS, then next to try is phase sensor. However, if it has only started since putting in coil-pack conversion, this would suggest to me that the second amplifier is not correctly earthed?

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

Ok, cheers Mike.
Got a new phase sensor, gapped to 0.2mm also, so that should in theory rule that out...
I'll check the earthing of the 2 ig amps in a moment when the car cools down. - its got the wiring loom from MSD (as was the entire kit), and didn't have to make any new eathing points.. - i'l diuble check thoigh to be sure.
Been out in her today, it it comes and goes - drove into town, and back and she was behaving fine. Drove in again 2 hours later, and it stuttered 3 or 4 times in the space of 5 miles....

Cheers

foreigneRS

is the 2nd ign amp bolted to a heat sink tghat is well connected to the bodywork with heat conducting paste between all surfaces?

you haven't got one of those shitty brackets where one amp is stacked on top pf the other so that the other is in the air and not conducting to the bodywork have you?

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

Yeah chap, I reused the old ig. amp, and bought a new one as part of the kit from MSD. Also bought one of the brackets from them to mout them both Used the heat conducting paste on both ig. amp's, and i'm sure they are bolted down correctly, although to be quite honest i've not checked - I've been concerntrating my efforts towards the CPS / Phase sensor as everything i've read on here has pointed in that direction (tis a pain as on my old EFI XR2 turbo, i knew the car inside out, but the Escos means starting afresh! )

I have fitted the new ECT today and noticed that the wiring going to it has been cut- and re-soldered at some point, although heat shrink hasn't been used, so will be doing that tomorrow. I've also noticed that one of the wires going into the pahse sensor looks a bit shitty, but apparently Ford don't do wiring plug repair kits off the shelf - otherwise i'd have changed that tomorrow too just to rule it out... - could this be the cause?

Cheers for the help guys, much appreciated!

Edited to add:
Mart - thats exactly what I was going to do , but i don't want to have to get the car trailer there, only to then have to bring it all the way back if its something simple

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, only just read this again...

Yep - that is exactly the type of bracket I have... :


Thought they'd be perfectly up to the job?

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

OH FFS..
Looks like the sodding starter motor has decieded it doesn't want to play ball now too... - sometimes it works ok, whereas other times you can here it spinning, but not engauging on the flywheel..... - took it out, and all teeth are still on the flywheel... - bloody marvelous... - and all this of course meant that I didn't have time to sod about with the other issue i've got...

One the plus side, did get to do a compression test on the car before the s/m decided not to play ball, and that came up ok. I am going to get another ig.amp to rule that out from my possible problem, and after testing the earthing of both ign.amps, it seemed fine.. - would it be worth my while to earth them directly to the bat though?
I'm not running out of things it could be... - after LeMans, the car is defo going to MSD in some way shape or form for them to look at... - I really don't want to miss the summer, esp as i still need to get it booked into a spray shop for a touch up here and there....

foreigneRS

i wouldnot mount my 2nd amp like that, as i would want the aluminium heatsink on the body to be able to conduct the heat away. i don't know the symptoms of a too hot ign. amp, but on dingys thread stu inferred that it could cause a misfire

but if Stu sold it to you, it should be suitable

Stu @ M Developments

iTrader: (12)

Rolls,
Its a tricky one but jerking, is "Almost" always associated with either CPS or Phase. Has it had a cambelt recently? Sensor alignment can do it.

If your worried about the ecu, feel free to send it up and we can check it out, but you could go over all the ecu conections yourself, just to be sure. problems here are rare, but anthing is possible.

One thing i must insist you check though, especially with the starter suddenly playing up too, is the ENGINE EARTH strap. A visual inspection is NOT enough, get under there and check its tight. It can cause ALL your symptoms easily.

Im not at all sure why you dont think this bracket is heatsinkin to the chassis Nick.



In practise, you tend to find the outer amp is the coolest running one due to the air flowing all around it on the move. The inner one tends to be the hottest. But if ive missed an issue feel free to point it out.

foreigneRS

if you say it's good enough stu, then it is

just to my engineering eye the top bracket does not have much surface connected to the bodywork for conduction - but it is probably more than made up for if there is airflow around it

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

Cheers for the replies guys.

Yeah, the car has had a cambelt change at the same point, but has been timed up as per the ford workshop manual, and checked by 3 separate people as i was shitting it, thinking that I'd do it wrong. - Its just odd that sometimes it will run fine, but othertimes it wont!

Once i'm back from LeMans (the cos isn't going as I don't want to risk it...)
I'll whip everything off of the front of the car again, and check the CPS / pulley allignment, and re-check timing etc again...

I'll also check the engine earth strap, as it seemed to be secure, but you never know..
Stu - I'll be in touch and re-book that set-up once its running semi-normally

Cheers

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

Righty then... - time to start work on the car again....
I've replaced the engine earth strap (well, added another one from the same place where the original one goes to, directly to the bat) and the starter motor is still playing silly buggers.... - so i've now got a new one on order - that way at least I can rule that out of the equation.
'm just going to go and take the cooler etc off again, and re-check everything that i've done to the car thus far to ensure i've not missed anything silly....

Just one thing - I presume that Snap-on falut code diagnostic equpiment will interface with the car? - or will the coilpack conversion, and chip just cause it to not give correct readings?

I'll let you know how I get on!

robbieg

iTrader: (9)

I've had similiar running problems and starter motor problems to you,turned out to be the battery down on power.Replaced battery problem solved.
One thing for sure it ain't the dual amplifier bracket,the bracket you have got has more than twice the heatsinking properties the standard mounting bracket has.

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

Lol - got a new battery on her, and she reads 13.9 volts when running on a volt-meter....

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

Ritey then guys, finally time for an update...
Starting problem was down to the starter motor - got a new one from Ford, and now it will at least start...

I have also taken the cooler back off, and re-checked all of the gaps on the CPS. They now all read at between 0.8 and 0.7mm, so in theory this will rule the cps out. I've double checked that the notches on the bottom pulley are in line with the sensor, and they are fine.

I have also attached another engine earth strap to the block in the same place as the original, and connected directly to the bat to rule this out completely.
I do still need to double check the gap on the phase sensor, but it was gapped to 0.2, which should be fine shouldn't it?


One thing it has now started to do is it is reluctant to start - will turn over and then run lumpy as fook untill you give it a rev, when it is fine... - Does this point to the Phase? - Its a new sensor - i'm guessing this then points to the wiring... - so what is the best way to check this?

Its quite frankly starting to do my head in - the car will be fine, then stutter, and then be fine again for another half hour... - also, it will start fine when hot, but not when cold.... (ECT is new also...)

Any more ideas guys pls?

Cheers

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Headgasket weeping / head cracked / block cracked and letting in water into the combustion chamber so that it is reluctant to start or run until this is burned off?

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

Don't think so, although I could be wrong - compression test was ok, and it's not using water

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

Forgot to also say that the car doesn't smoke at all either which is why I wouldn't suspect the h/gasket
Anyone know how is best to check the wiring for the phase / cps?

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

Take it to someone who has a Pectel monitor and plug this in. If any of the sensors is playing up, it will come up on the screen .

Ryan

heard of this a few times, have u got anyone with a p8 to try?

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

Erm.... - minor prob in that I don't know anyone with a Pectel monitor
Excuse my ignorance too, but do you need a pectel board or other gubbins to enable them to interface..

Could always send the ECU to MSD to check as its just had a coilpack conversion, and Stu said he'd be happy to test it ....

Failing that, how good are Snap-On diagnostic tools on Esc's? - I can get access to one of those at a main Nissan dealer through my brother, so that's worth a shot?

Cheers for the help guys

Gary F

iTrader: (1)

Have you got tape over on the rocker cover where the ht leads used to go

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

Nope - all the tape awas removed - I only put it there to stop dropping any bolts etc through the cam cover

Mike Rainbird

iTrader: (3)

I'd personally take the whole car to someone like Stu, or whoe-ever is nearest you for it to be gone over with a fine tooth comb, otherwise you will be forever swapping things and pulling your hair out .

Rolls

iTrader: (2)

yeah, that was the plan....
Looks like once i'm back from Verbier I'll be giving him another call and getting the car up there no-matter what...