Im looking to upgrade the box in my 550hp 2wd sapphire cosworth, currently running the standard box but it’s getting a bit whiney and don’t think it will last much longer. Im looking at getting it rebuilt with a quaife big tooth kit, but was wondering if theres any other options worth looking at? Thanks

 

Tremec TKO 500 in rods saph did 36000 miles with power from 500-850 hp, and over 600 lbft through it

Has now recently had a TKO 600 fitted as the original finally gave up

 

Just sold my big tooth it wasn’t a bad gearbox did me well and I had 500bhp. My mate has an elite box but your talking mega money. I’m putting a tremec in mine as I got a broken one and re built it

 

Did you get rods old box ?

 

Yes put a new 3rd gear in it new layshaft all new bearings and new synchros with carbon ones on 2nd 3rd and 4th. My big tooth was a good box there was no point breaking it with my new engine

 

How much is the tremec? Tbh im looking to spend as a maximum what a quaife would cost, which is about 2k ish, if I could spend less or find a used one that would be great. Been spending a fortune on cars lately and still got a way to go with the cossie to get it where i want too

 

About Ł3k for a new TKO 600, but if you search for used there will no doubt be some about
They must of been fitted standard in some American cars id of thought

 

I put a tremec out of the tvr in my escort ,you can change rear tail housing for the t5 one,so gear-lever in same position,I did change to quaife internals as it didn’t like changing fast at high revs as obviously behind a v8 they only see say 7k redline but make lots of torque,think the internals from quaife were around Ł1700 ,took a lot of abuse and could change gear fast at 8500 rpm plus

 

Nice one pal like a new box again now

 

I've looked in to this and it seems like you can only get the big tooth t5 box or if you want to spend a bit more the tko 600 for a 2wd for reasonable money. Anything else starts to get expensive.

i would love a sequential box in mine but as it's just a road car I've heard they are not nice to drive at low speed and don't like low rpm gear changes so think I will just have a big tooth kit put in my T5 box

 

Theres no way a tremec or t5 box will change gear fast at 8500rpm plus, it just don’t work quick at that rpm

Cheers Paul

 

He did it mate with his MK2 was running 9s with it, seriously fast

 

That is a very quick time, any vids of that run?

Still doesn’t mean the box is changing gear fast though....

Cheers Paul

 

I'm not sure mate turnover hopefully add later
He can proper pedal a manual though

I know mark has done some mods to my TKO 600 to help with high rpm shifting and he's said it has helped

I dunno I've still not driven it yet

 

people say that but I have never had a problem. I tested Carl’s car and 3rd to 4th change at 8500rpm lasted a total of .25 of a second on the data log with no crunch on syncro.
I also have a car coming in next week that has the same box and that has the problem so converting the input shaft mods to the way I make the kit fit and will see if that fixes it.

Mark

 

What about the lower gears?

Cheers Paul

 

I was considering a sequential drag car but in the end I just went dct again as they are just simply brilliant gearboxes, perfect for road or race, but a sequential while it will be good for racing, the maintenance costs are high, rebuilds needed regular and far from ideal in a road car

My opinion is your making the right choice staying h pattern for a road car

​​​​​​

 

You could be the first to fit a bmw 7 speed double clutch set up in a Sierra lol. Stand alone ecu get a bell housing made and a flywheel. How deep are you pockets lol

 

Even the automatic 8 speed in my RS6 is really good, hugely strong and quick shifting would take anything a yb can chuck at it easily

 

wheel spin lol. 2nd to 3rd was fine also but as it’s geared for over 80mph and still spinning it’s a bit hard to gauge 100% as it’s not my car and a bit too close to abusing someone else’s car I couldn’t treat it too roughly.
on the Pre gearbox it was never a issue with 7seconds 0-100mph in it.
I have seen the problem on the other cars with the tko in it but both have more rotating weight in the clutch and friction in the spigot bearing than Carl’s car. Will be working through the problem on the other cars first with the spigot then if that doesn’t fix a lighter clutch.

Mark

 

Looks like il be going with the quaife when the time comes for cost mainly, if anyone hears of a good used one I’d appreciate a pm. Thanks

 

Paul if you read it I put the quaife internals in it ,and my rev limiter was 8800 rpm and shift light was 8600 rpm click the videos links in this post at the bottom,the higher the revs the better it shifted vids below

 

Ohh and also a lot of problems with shifting gears fast at high rpm is people use the wrong clutch setup a lot of the time ,either doesn’t release quick enough or drags ,so it’s not just a gearbox that will make the difference

 

All things considered, not that expensive really. The boxes can easily be bought for less than Ł1k. The standard clutch will easily handle the power he wants. There are a couple of controllers for the box for under or around Ł1k that are standalone themselves. However they do need a rewire of the boxes mechatronics...which is a little less appealing.
And there are a couple of places making adapter kits for all sorts of cars, so shouldnt be too hard to get one sorted.

It could be done a lot cheaper than some other boxes, and a lot cheaper than most sequentials.

 

That is very true

Cheers Paul

 

edit...in fact, seems 2 years ago people were already looking into it

https://www.facebook.com/eliseracing/photos/sierra-sapphire-cosworth-escort-cosworth-rs-500-and-yb-engines-cars-will-soon-be/2021680704783705/

https://www.eliseracing.com/syvecs-h-pro-dct-gearbox

 

Most moderately tuned 450bhp to 500bhp YB engines in a road car/occasional track days will not be revving at 8500rpm plus so one of the uprated T5 gearboxes should be ok I would have thought?

 

Good thread as it’s something I’ll need to address on mine once it’s finished, tremec seems a ball ache to do and quite expensive compared to a gearbox man Quaife big tooth T5 kit?

 

Definitely, that’s what I have at the moment.
But I wasn’t necessarily talking moderately tuned 450/500hp engines

Cheers Paul

 

ballistic times there mate, mega quick car.
must be some spec you’ve got there, being that fast and revving to 8600.

you still take it to pod?

Cheers Paul

 

Paul,I realise when you are talking about mega powerfull 700+ bhp Cosworth engines the gearbox issues move into a different phase.

 

Adam-M The uprated T5 from Gearboxman is what I am interested in, should be a big improvement over the standard T5. My Saff is only 450bhp but the gearbox can't up with the engine revs and smooth gear changes at high revs are difficult.

 

Paul that was 8 or 9 years ago and is long sold ,was de-tuned by the next owners,was descent time considering it was a full grp4 car and no launch control etc ,an old setup compared to how ecu,s etc have moved on

 

Ahh ok.
Just goes to show you that you don’t necessarily need modern turbos, ecus, engine specs and fancy gearboxes to run quick times....

Cheers Paul

 

Can anyone give advice for a 4wd saff running 500- 600 hp, road car only and not one to launch etc

thanks

 

Mark Shead rates pete doughty for 4x4 cossie boxes

 

i really fancy going down this route in my escos .i want it to drive a bit more modern and would love to be able to stick it in auto for the longer drives and heavy traffic .

i see markk has one in his rally car with the skyline transfer box fitted ,but maybe 2wd would be ok for mine as a road car with some traction control fitted

my left foot is full of arthritis and i want to build somthing i can drive as i get older lol

 

I think in a lot of cases, the ZF8HP would be a better option. Some of the gearboxes themselves are extremely cheap and plentiful, BMW's and Jags

Mark has went for the DCT, which are great boxes too, but definitely more expensive. There seem to be a few more controller options for the ZF too.

 

yeah stevie my mate has been saying the same to me about the zf8hp.i think they have both the same bolt pattern but I don't think theirs off an shelf conversion kit for the zf box like there is for the dct box.

adamat performance does a off the shelf conversion for the yb for the dct box for about 1300 euro

 

There are so many different boxes, some may or may not have same bolt patterns. Although obviously the ZF has a torque converter.

I'm sure some of the companies, PMC, HPR, Domiworks etc would be able to produce a kit for a YB. Not sure in general how popular it would be. But they're all producing more and more kits all the time

Either way, DCT or 8HP, both great options.

I did consider them myself, but just not convinced either would be strong enough, and it could turn into a very expensive gamble to find they break. Either of them are not easily upgraded.