XR2i 1.6 Race car Starting problem.
Thread Starter
Virgin
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Wiltshire
XR2i 1.6 Race car Starting problem.
Hi all, I’ve been reading through previous posts however as the car isn’t standard it’s hard to confirm what my issue is.
I have an xr2i race car. Nothing has changed on the car since the end of last season however it is struggling to start.
All the 2i’s in my championship are lazy starters however mine simply isn’t starting now.
It had a small race battery on it all it’s life which is 17.5AH and it has always started ok. To rule out the battery I got a new one slightly more powerful which is 21AH. It still has the same issue.
Cranking speed seems to go fast and slow so, to rule it out I have just fitted an uprated high torque starter(transit connect I believe).
It now cranks brilliantly however it will not start. At this point I’m thinking it’s a lack of spark. Pretty sure it’s not fuel because it runs a stand-alone fuel pump which I manually switch on.
I’d welcome any suggestions as to where to look from here...?!?
It runs an aftermarket Ecu and has the same map as last year when it finished the season.
I must add that if I use a jump pack or extra battery with jump leads it starts fine.
the easy answer is that the battery isn’t manly enough, however it has always run on a less powerful battery and so do all the other 2i’s in the championship.
Please advise, many thanks
I have an xr2i race car. Nothing has changed on the car since the end of last season however it is struggling to start.
All the 2i’s in my championship are lazy starters however mine simply isn’t starting now.
It had a small race battery on it all it’s life which is 17.5AH and it has always started ok. To rule out the battery I got a new one slightly more powerful which is 21AH. It still has the same issue.
Cranking speed seems to go fast and slow so, to rule it out I have just fitted an uprated high torque starter(transit connect I believe).
It now cranks brilliantly however it will not start. At this point I’m thinking it’s a lack of spark. Pretty sure it’s not fuel because it runs a stand-alone fuel pump which I manually switch on.
I’d welcome any suggestions as to where to look from here...?!?
It runs an aftermarket Ecu and has the same map as last year when it finished the season.
I must add that if I use a jump pack or extra battery with jump leads it starts fine.
the easy answer is that the battery isn’t manly enough, however it has always run on a less powerful battery and so do all the other 2i’s in the championship.
Please advise, many thanks
15000
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 20
Likes: 1
From: Ireland
A car needs plenty of Ooomph! to get the car started using a battery. A car bettery is designed to give it that burst of power, and not for long lasting slow drain power. Also, there are other components on the car that also use the same batter to run when starting, so there's a nice bit of draw from it when cranked.
So, it's when you say that you use a jump pack or extra battery suggests that the battery you are using is not up to the job. Is it a new one? 21 ah sounds like too small a battery for the job, but it has worked before, perhaps theres something else on the car draining the power needed to start it.
Now, ther only other thing is that if there is a component on the car ( like the fuel pump) that needs the full 12v from the battery, but is faulty, then maybe that's worth considering.
So, it's when you say that you use a jump pack or extra battery suggests that the battery you are using is not up to the job. Is it a new one? 21 ah sounds like too small a battery for the job, but it has worked before, perhaps theres something else on the car draining the power needed to start it.
Now, ther only other thing is that if there is a component on the car ( like the fuel pump) that needs the full 12v from the battery, but is faulty, then maybe that's worth considering.
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,501
Likes: 184
From: Colchester,essex
If you now essentially have a stronger battery and a better starter than you did when it worked previously, it has to be another component.
Check the fuel pump is working firstly on crank and that it is producing pressure at the rail/injectors. Might be something as basic as a gummed up fuel filter.
If thats ok, check for spark
Check the fuel pump is working firstly on crank and that it is producing pressure at the rail/injectors. Might be something as basic as a gummed up fuel filter.
If thats ok, check for spark
Last edited by haz87; Mar 29, 2018 at 05:10 AM.
Thread Starter
Virgin
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Wiltshire
I was thinking a bad earth. I have run an extra earth from the bonding point straight to the battery which made no difference.
I haven’t yet checked the fuel pump. I can hear it running fine although it does pick up once I put the jump pack on.
In terms of battery not being any good, that can’t really be the issue. As I said, I have uprated the battery from what has previously worked on the car for the previous few years.
Ive ordered new plugs and I’ve got a spare coil. I’ve also found a used EDIS thing, I shall change all of these and check for a spark. If I have a spark then I will check if the fuel pump is dying.
Am I right I’m thinking that if the fuel rail doesn’t achieve the required pressure then the injectors won’t open?
Thanks to all for your input!
cheers
I haven’t yet checked the fuel pump. I can hear it running fine although it does pick up once I put the jump pack on.
In terms of battery not being any good, that can’t really be the issue. As I said, I have uprated the battery from what has previously worked on the car for the previous few years.
Ive ordered new plugs and I’ve got a spare coil. I’ve also found a used EDIS thing, I shall change all of these and check for a spark. If I have a spark then I will check if the fuel pump is dying.
Am I right I’m thinking that if the fuel rail doesn’t achieve the required pressure then the injectors won’t open?
Thanks to all for your input!
cheers
15000
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 20
Likes: 1
From: Ireland
Can't say for sure about the fuel pressure.
When you mentioned it starts up fine with a jump, then that suggests the starting circuit. Looks like you will have to go down the standard route of elimination. Spark first, then fuel.
When you mentioned it starts up fine with a jump, then that suggests the starting circuit. Looks like you will have to go down the standard route of elimination. Spark first, then fuel.
Thread Starter
Virgin
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Wiltshire
Right, finally got some free time to look at the car.
I changed the coil pack, spark plugs and tried 2 edis modules.
Took the cps out but the new one was incorrect annoyingly.
Earthed a plug when it was out and I had no spark.
plugs are wet so fueling is not the issue.
other than trying a different cps what else can I try?
leads? Although it runs fine once started!
Thanks
I changed the coil pack, spark plugs and tried 2 edis modules.
Took the cps out but the new one was incorrect annoyingly.
Earthed a plug when it was out and I had no spark.
plugs are wet so fueling is not the issue.
other than trying a different cps what else can I try?
leads? Although it runs fine once started!
Thanks
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PassionFord Post Whore!!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,501
Likes: 184
From: Colchester,essex
Need to swap out the CPS first really.
You could scope out the CPS to ensure its generating the right signal. If thats ok, then its probably going to be check the wiring time. Corrosion at the coilpack plug/loom etc etc.
Pain in the arse basically!
You could scope out the CPS to ensure its generating the right signal. If thats ok, then its probably going to be check the wiring time. Corrosion at the coilpack plug/loom etc etc.
Pain in the arse basically!
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,501
Likes: 184
From: Colchester,essex
Do you own an oscilloscope? I'm guessing probably not if you have to ask.
^Thats not meant to read as twattish as it does.
If you do, or have access to one then there are plenty of google how-to's or vids on youtube on how to read the waveform
^Thats not meant to read as twattish as it does.
If you do, or have access to one then there are plenty of google how-to's or vids on youtube on how to read the waveform
Thread Starter
Virgin
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Wiltshire
Nope, I’m guessing it’s easier to just source the correct part than look into sorting an oscilliscope
sorry, only asked as I thought a may be able to check the resistance across the pins or something fairly simple.
👍🏻
Cheers
sorry, only asked as I thought a may be able to check the resistance across the pins or something fairly simple.
👍🏻
Cheers
15000
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 20
Likes: 1
From: Ireland
Thread Starter
Virgin
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Wiltshire
Yes and no.
I have tried a borrowed battery with the same power and it started it fine.
However the new battery I bought started it fine the first time it started too.
I haven’t fitted the new cps yet as I’ve been busy with work.
I think either my old battery was knackered and the new one dropped a cell shortly after the first use, or something is killing the battery somehow?
just to note. voltage etc is always good and is charging at 14v from alternator.
Is it possible for something to kill the battery whilst in use?
🤨
I have tried a borrowed battery with the same power and it started it fine.
However the new battery I bought started it fine the first time it started too.
I haven’t fitted the new cps yet as I’ve been busy with work.
I think either my old battery was knackered and the new one dropped a cell shortly after the first use, or something is killing the battery somehow?
just to note. voltage etc is always good and is charging at 14v from alternator.
Is it possible for something to kill the battery whilst in use?
🤨
15000
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 20
Likes: 1
From: Ireland
There can't really be something that would kill the battery like that when in use. If the alternator was faulty, then maybe, but you say you're getting 14 volts when running then that's not the case.
Even from your first post it sounds like it is a problem in the starting circuit. I doubt a new cps will make much difference to you.
Even from your first post it sounds like it is a problem in the starting circuit. I doubt a new cps will make much difference to you.
Thread Starter
Virgin
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Wiltshire
Apologies for not replying.
I changed the starter and the battery and has been fine ever since.
the brand new battery I sent back was checked and found to be faulty! Very annoying as that leads to further expense but at least the problem is solved.
thanks for all the help and advice.
scott
I changed the starter and the battery and has been fine ever since.
the brand new battery I sent back was checked and found to be faulty! Very annoying as that leads to further expense but at least the problem is solved.
thanks for all the help and advice.
scott
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