Help please! I'm trying to help out a mate with a non-starting 2006 Focus C Max 1.6 TDCI.

There are no fault codes recorded and the immobiliser light operates normally with either/both keys.

1) The engine does not even attempt to turn over on the key. I have removed relay 13 and found that when bridged the engine will turn over no problems, there is a good 'signal' or energising feed from the ignition in the start position of 12.6v when checked straight to earth. However, on the energising earth side the voltage drops to 8.5v (even straight from the battery). I have checked the black/red wire to the PCM has negligible resistance from relay pin to PCM plug. I reckon there is high resistance (causing the volt drop) in either the PCM or one of the other wire(s) in the coming back out.

My thoughts are if the PCM were cutting the starter relay signal earth as a 'normal' design function (like due to some detected fault or immobiliser issue) there would be no current flow rather than the reduced flow (which I know is the reason why the otherwise good relay 13 is not operating).

Modern Haynes manuals seem less than helpful with only a few bits of very basic generic wiring diagrams which don't even show the correct relay and fuse numbers (maybe they use the same diagrams for everything now to save costs).

2) When I bridge relay 13 above with the key on the start position, the engine turns over fine, but still will not fire (but I imagine the PCM demands an ignition or start feed signal of some kind to start its processes).

I have checked all the relays work when removed and operated across the battery (again limited information on what each relay actually does as the numbers in the Haynes manual and the Ford handbook is incomplete and do not align with the relay numbers and the pictograms mostly just show books with exclamation marks - very helpful, not!).

I have removed and checked all the fuses in both boxes (had to as don't know for sure which fuses cover what circuits as useless information on these too) are good and all the earth points are good too (I even unbolted and cleaned them just to be really sure).

The battery was flat when I first looked at the car and 'engine management fault' would come up on the display when trying to start. Since the battery was recharged the fault message no longer appears. Not sure why the battery was flat - I'm thinking I can look at that once the car is running again.

I am a Truck Technician with auto-electric experience by trade so not totally clueless (tho maybe I am) but struggling to get any decent wiring diagrams or information to work with.

Has anyone experienced anything similar and/or can they tell me where I can get some reliable wiring diagrams and information please.

Thank you.

Julian

 

If using a generic fault code reader you may not be actually getting Ford specific codes.

Sounds to me as if you have a CAN fault where at some point in the CAN-BUS circuit you have a loss of communication between modules and it's not passing the messages around to allow it to start.

When you try and crank it does the mileage display turn from the numerical display to ----- ?

You can check the total resistance in the CAN circuit from the 16 pin diag socket. Pins 6 + 14 are Hi-Speed CAN, Pins 3 + 11 are Middle CAN - If you check resistance on each between 6 + 14 and 3 + 11 should have 60ohm on each. (ignition off of course)



Also, if you remove the left hand kick panel, there are 2 large block connectors, these can lose connection through the CAN wires (you can see the twisted wires) check the condition of the connector/pins inside and as a belts and braces thing secure the plugs with cable ties to tighten them up.

In the centre of the BJB (battery junction box) there's a large rectangle connector, check that and the pins inside.

Also with glovebox removed, there's another large connector behind the sound insulation, you need to cut a slot in the insulation basically behind the turret and pull the connector through and do the same as the other connectors. Some people actually hard wire the CAN wires so they don't pass through the connectors.

If the fault isn't that simple it could be a fault in any of the modules on the CAN circuit...

PCM
ABS
EPAS < remove OS headlight see if it has an electric PAS pump, check wiring to that, even try starting with it disconnected..
GEM/BODY MODULE
AUDIO UNIT
INSTRUMENT CLUSTER
etc!

 

........

 

Brilliant! much appreciated, that really gives me something to work with. I'll look at the mileage reading more carefully - I seem to recall the display just shows scrolling warnings like bonnet open or door open.

Since the original posting I got a mate of a mate to put a better diagnostic computer on it and it came up with a fault code (stupidly, I didn't write it down) relating to something along the lines of an unexpected/miss-matched/ CAN signal in the PATS system, which he believes (after consulting with one of his mates who is Ford trained) - is due a failure of the instrument panel.

I am considering sending the instrument display to a specialist repairer (there are one or two I found on the net) for test/repair (as opposed to getting another one and being charged a quoted Ł80 just to configure it). I would then be sure that part was fully sorted.

Has anyone got any experience of any instrument repairers?

However, I'm going to check that CAN resistance and those plugs first (I think I have probably done a few already just cos I could see them).

To hard wire the CAN BUS, I assume I would need to run new complete lengths of wire, as I seem to recall from similar applications, soldering is not acceptable due the resistance changes.

I'll keep you posted on my successes (hopefully).

Thanks again

Julian

 

These vehicles do sometimes put out random U codes (codes generated because of communication issues) which aren't 'important' and can be ignored. Would be nice to know the code it had. It could of course be the instrument cluster or wiring to/from it.

Where I work we have used BBA reman for repairs to modules. http://www.bba-reman.com/uk/ They do have a very helpful trade forum on there, I'm sure I've seen some posts about clusters on there.

Can't honestly remember what I used once to bypass the connectors, probably the 'heat shrink' type of bullet connectors rather than soldering for the reasons you posted.

Have had a similar fault but very intermittent recently with a Focus, once in about 3 days it won't start, no crank, but if you turn the key off, and on again it starts so not able to see it in a faulted state.

 

I'm going to call the person who tested it, in the morning, in the hope he's more organised than I am and can tell me the code! I do know he cleared the fault and it came back straight away every time. Initially, there were loads of other faults too - but they did not come back. We suspect they were probably related to the flat battery or just historic in the memory.

 

There was one other thing he pointed out the PATS light appeared to be giving a flash code in the pattern 2 blinks followed by 3 blinks (I think I remembered that the right way round) - I was surprised modern vehicle electronics still did that. No idea what it means though!

 

Yes, you will get codes in certain modules when low (or high) battery voltages occur.

Did he scan all the modules on the car or just the engine ECU?

Used to have a chart on the earlier PATS system with flash codes, not aware of any for newer stuff. Normally all diag is done with the IDS dealer tool.

I will check though.

 

Cheers for that. I think he did a full scan as a lot of module categories came up. I know it wasn't the full ford diagnostic tool he used but it was professional kit.

 

.......

 

Found a flash-code chart for this.

2 secs!

 

Cheers for that. I think he did a full scan as a lot of module categories came up. I know it wasn't the full ford diagnostic tool he used but it was professional kit.

 

Fault code 1st column, Flash code 2nd column - 2-3 seems to be a data mismatch between PCM/IC

 

Sorry don't know why i put same reply twice. Maybe cos I'm looking st site on phone now.

 

Looking at that list is was definitely the b2139. That was the exact wording I remember. Looking good for instrument cluster failure then. I'm going to phone BBA tomorrow to get a repair done. Cheers

 

Let us know if they do the clusters, I know they've done ABS controllers for us,and their service is very good.

 

Ive just rung BBA Reman. They do cluster repairs for PATS problems. I need to send them the instrument panel, the PCM and one key and they will test it all for 35 pounds. A unit repair (assuming required) is 115 pounds. They seem professional and know what they need to do! its a 3 to 5 day turnaround though. Anyway, I'm gong to recommend this to my friend as the way to go! I'll update this post with the results.

 

Instrument cluster, PCM & Key on their way to BBA now. I checked the CAM resistances before removing anything and they were both on 60ohms.

 

BBA have confirmed the fault in the dash cluster unit. Their whole repair cost (inc testing) is Ł150.00. Hopefully, when I get it all back on Monday the car will start as it should!

 

Great news!

 

Re-Fitted Instrument Cluster and PCM, tried on key and still NO GO!

I can see this time the PATS light stays solid (not blinking) when the ignition is on, so it seems like something may have been repaired but essentially it feels like we're back to step one!

I did test with a generic OBD Tester and got the following codes;

P2584 fuel additive control module requested MIL Illumination
P0500 Vehicle speed sensor A
P1934 DTC definition not found! Please refer to vehicle service manual
J0073 Control module communication Bus off.

These faults cleared ok and have not come back since, so I wonder if they're due to removing the panel and PCM for repair.


Also, I have done an Instrument Panel 'self test' by holding the reset button down while switching on the ignition. This has given me 6 DTR codes;

A139
5750
9861
D900
E510
9202

I'm not sure if these are relevant or not - possibly even historic from the original fault or removing the panel and PCM?

Can anyone help with what these codes relate to please?

 

Welcome to my world.

No idea on the instrument self-test codes, I never use/look at them -I will see if there's a chart for it.

Seems like you still have a fault on the can-bus to me.

Check the connectors I mentioned earlier. Particulary the angled one at base of NS A pillar and the one behind the sound insulation as these carry the hi-speed can wiring (red/blue trace and grey/red) - they're pathetic thin wires..

 

Does the ABS light go out when key on as it should?

Have a read here too - http://www.bba-reman.com/forums/Topic104444.aspx

 

Yes indeed, thanks for that welcome!

Even better for me is I'm working for free (well maybe beer and pizza) in the dark and cold - both literally and metaphorically in this case

I guess that's no worse than loosing time/money/bonus in the day job tho!

Anyway, all the dash lights now seem to operate correctly, including the ABS.

While looking on the net, I found an online manual at
http://ford.workshop-manuals.com/C-MAX_2003.75_06.2003/index.php?id=663

Which effectively covers the tests I did on the starter relay/circuit to the PCM when I first started looking. Their conclusion appears to be, if there is 10v+ at C1013 pin 1 when the key is in the starter position (which there is) and the relay is working correctly (which it is) and the resistance to the red/black wire to the PCM is less than 5 ohms (which it is), then the PCM has failed.

I did direct activate the starter with the ignition on and the engine still doesn't fire - is there (should there be) a direct ignition feed to the PCM when the ignition is on?

I found if I pull relay 14, what little current flows through C1013 pin 2 stops altogether. So I now wonder which wire completes the circuit from the PCM to earth and if the problem is there.

I'm going to call BBA in the morning to see what the fault was they found/repaired and see if they will look again at the PCM for this.

 

I wasn't being sarcastic, just that this is the sort of thing I get lumbered with too.

Really need a wiring diagram to check all the PCM feeds and grounds. Difficult for me to share the ones I have access to! As they are mostly in sections not the complete 'picture' as it were.

The test you've done does seem a bit conclusive it's a PCM problem.

They maybe able to advise further tests before condemning the PCM?

 

P1934 & P0500 are both vehicle speed signal faults.

If vehicle won't start/move this must be a can/comms error not passing info between PCM/IC/ABS. (Or other modules as I posted previously)

From elsewhere.

 

I didn't take you as being sarcastic and my reply was supposed to be light hearted! I really do appreciate all your advice. I'm hoping BBA will be able to shed some light on the matter. While I'm not unhappy with them, they won't claim this was their best job as they 'lost' the hand delivered units in their system (luckily i had taken pictures of the units with serial numbers etc so they could ID them) and on pick up they couldn't give us any paperwork due to their computer being down. These things happen and all is forgiven when the car starts!!

 

Have you any experience of the diagnostic cables/laptop software i see on the net around Ł50 are they any good for this kind of work?

 

Sorry I don't - maybe worth looking into the 'Formidable' software, I've seen it mentioned on diy diag stuff on Fords, no personal experience of it.

 

Cheers, I'll look at that, I've got a Ford too, so having access to diagnostic kit could save me grief in the future. Meanwhile, I've spoken to BBA today and they are going to recheck the PCM for this fault. Looks like the car will be VOR until after Christmas though!

 

Progress update, had PCM and Dash back to BBA to test/confirm all ok, which they did FOC for us. On refitting, the engine was still not firing or turning over on key. Started looking closer at wiring loom, found when touching or moving engine loom (especially where it goes round the back of the block), the dash would go crazy with instruments and faults everywhere also when PCM Plugs 'wriggled' this caused much the same symptoms. I unbound part of the loom (hoping to find one broken wire to repair) but naturally no luck - I did get the impression that someone had undone that part of the loom sometime before in the cars history. The result of gently moving the loom a couple of times was to loose all connection to PCM (including with my diagnostic unit). Decided after talking to a couple of local auto electricians, that a loom repair was not practical - so ordered a new engine loom from Ford which took them a while to get (when ordered they said it was in group stock so would be the next day). Fitted the new loom last weekend, which restored all the PCM/PATS/Diagnostic connections and stopped all the fault codes coming up when the loom moved. Frustratingly, having got that part 'stable' again, the engine will still not turn over on the key (or fire when starter operated direct). I'm thinking now to take a longer harder look at the wiring back from the front fusebox. hopefully the gradually lighter evenings will speed this process on!

 

hi,I have a very similar problem with my ford cmax 1.6 tdci 2009 so car no starting when ignition on is loud beeping sound and two faults apears Engine Malfunction and Gearbox Malfunction not sure about gearbox fault as car is a manual. Then when measure resistance between pins 6&14 or pins 3&11 of the diagnostic port resistance is about 120 ohms and I have no power on fuses 34,35, 36 only fuse 9 has power on it. So now my question is what would be next step i should do with such a case?Thanks. Martin​​​​​​

 

hi,I have a very similar problem with my ford cmax 1.6 tdci 2009 and when measure resistance between pins 6&14 or pins 3&11 of the diagnostic port resistance is about 120 ohms and i have no power on fuses 34,35, 36 only fuse 9 has power on it. So now my question is what would be next step i should do with such a case?Thanks. Martin

 

Hi, I cant believe how long ago this was!

Anyway, sadly after much messing about, including fitting a new (special order) loom from Ford - which they had to issue a full refund for after admitting it wasn't made correctly to the spec of the vehicle. My mate cut his losses and sold the car as a non-runner in the end.

With hindsight, even as an experienced tech (but in HGV, not cars), I would have found an independent Ford specialist (but not a Dealer) with the equipment and experience to get to the bottom of the issue.

I really hope you have more success with yours though!

A big thanks to everyone here who gave me loads of free expert advice at the time - cheers

 

I was wondering if it ever got running.

Cheers.

 

I seem to remember looking up the reg number a year or so later on the DVLA website and found it was taxed and MoT'd - how much of it was still my mates original car or another one I really don't know? Either way someone got to use it again!

 

ok but so far no one answer my question what I can try/check next? so just now i was checking resistance on obd pins and pins 3&11 has 60ohm so good I think but pins 6&14 still reads 120ohms also fuses 34,35,36 has no power on them just fuse 9 has..? Any ideas what to do next? Thanks. Martin

 

Hi Martin, to be honest you've added your question to a thread that's been dead over 7 years!

I personally was never an expert in the first place, but as I started the tread, I get your "reply" notifications and thought as a courtesy I'd let you know how I (didn't) get on.

I do know Its frustrating working with limited information available, but maybe take care not to let that show in your thread responses?

At the time I did find some wiring diagrams somewhere on the internet (they're probably still be out there somewhere). I printed
them on A3 paper and spend lots of time with a multimeter and pin probes etc. Ford tried twice to get me the right replacement loom and in the end they gave up and refunded the purchase (but sadly not my time or effort).

FYI The diagrams I found were for a later model, but the wire colours and pin numbers hadn't changed.

Once I found those wiring diagrams, I could then see what relays and fuses were fed from where and then went through each circuit methodically and individually - I'm a very patient person!

After all this time, especially since I don't normally work on Ford Cars, I really cant remember anything specific to help guide you today - sorry.

You may get a wider response from the PassionFord community by starting your own new thread?

 

I'm one of the only people that bother replying to tech threads about modern cars. Sadly i'm not at work at the minute to access wiring diagrams and info on these cars.