Whats needed? And would a ho inlet be a restriction at this level?

Also would it be best to start from a brand new engine or get an old unit rebuilt?

 

I dont think you'll ever see 200 bhp on a standard inlet.
Reckon you'd need at least 45mm throttle bodies or carbs, cams +ported polished head + management , low millage st170 engine might be a good starting point

 

It will take a lot of money! used engine would be fine, good management is key. I would go high comp with a wacky cam, head work. Then for the inlet I have heard throttle bodies aren't always that great and a good flowing inlet can be better.

A friend of mine is going vtec, and would probably be cheaper depending on what skills you have

 

Pretty easy and cheap but you would need to change the inlet for a set of throttle bodies.

Standard st170 engine on tb's, ms ecu, st170 manifold should get to the 200 figure, im aiming for around 230 to 250 on my na build but im taking the car a step further than what ive stated in regards to cr and head work

 

200bhp isn't easy to get to.
bodies will get up up in power, cams will help more, you'll still not see 200bhp though, more like 180bhp.

 

really?

wow.


Miller....

ST170 engine on carbs/ITB and managment will do 200bhp no problems

mine did good numbers on MFi and lost a lot of top end once i went 45`s sadly

 

I think its very easy imo,

been speaking to a good few people in the know and they have done a few similair conversions, one person did a st170 engine on bike tbs and got 260 odd with fairly straight forward modification.

What similar conversion have you seen only 180bhp on as i would be gutted if it was me? crazycage off here has done a tb and ms conversion on a st170 mapped by unicorn dev. (rick) which has responded really well, hopefully going in it in december to see how it goes, funny enough I have just got my invoice for my pistons whilst typing this :-(

from what ive learnt with a cr of about 11/1 tbs and some porting you would struggle to get less than 210

 

You ran a 2.0 zetec on k-jet? You're my new hero. Always wanted to do that

 

+1

im trying to find a thread which is an interesting read, im sure it was a silver top bottom end and a 170 head, the 170 head had much bigger inlet ports than standard and I think the pistons and rods are different to, higher comp etc, but im ditching mine in favour of steel, forged and a cr of 12

 

http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...t-dyno-session

its had head work and cams but still the engine build is still very simple and straight forward, also very cheap in reality in the terms of what other people charge for a build to achieve a graph like that, although I may be talking rubbish as im still learing all this na tb stuff with my build

 

Was a pain in the arse but went like fuck

volvo 2.3 metering head, merc cossie bits, other mix and match bits, loads of fuel pressure

ST170 internals in silvertop engine
didnt get true figure as it was wheelspinning at 132bhp@5000rpm sadly

 

Thing is we have a silver top and black top engines sitting hear so we would rather use one of those. not out to get every last hp as its going in a mk2 fiesta so 180-200 will be more than enough! i cant belive i just said that lol :-0

 

if your into fab work then fit the blacktop, better piston / rod design

take as much metal off the head as you can

try to make it injected, megasquirt off the shelf is like Ł250 mate, cant fuck about for that sort of cash can you!

im only in chelmsford ish area if you needed a hand or whatever

 

After speaking to jimbo @ SCS he stated it was best to modd the pistons instead of changing the cc of the head but thats all above my head.

I would say sell the 2 engines and get a st170 engine, all the work is then done, higher compression, better flowing head and uprated internals for around 230 bhp

MS is 450 odd assembled properly from the states but ive not looked into self assembly

 

best to not mod the head via excessive skimming, sorry its late and my typing is spaky

 

We have 600cc bike carbs on there at the mo with megajolt but think we are getting rid of that set up and i want to try a mo inlet as we have one coming. get a cam and some head work etc

 

http://trigger-wheels.com/store/contents/en-uk/d32.html

skimming the head is a cheaper, pikey way of achiving higher compression

 

i think this is making for an interesting thread, ive got a build thread on another site but if I have time soon I will try and start one on here, would be interesting to see everyones results, i would be to bothered if I was proved wrong but I would be happy to show everone my results, ups and downs a long the way of the build to help others out who may be thinking of doing the same.

Just got my invoice for the pistons and rods, 990 dollars delivered

 

A 2.0 blacktop will do 150-160bhp quite comfortably with ST170 4-2-1, decat, cat-back, Stage 2 cams, verniers, under drive pulleys and a good map. May even get close to 170bhp if you are lucky and 150ft.lbs of torque. My old 1.8 Zetec Focus had all the above plus an AEM style long arm induction kit and was custom mapped at MSD and was 145bhp prior to the map and it drove much better all through the rev range so arse dyno says 145bhp plus a bit more on a 1.8. Focus went well too so would think a MK2 Fez would go really well!

 

i have seen so many zetecs with bodies and bike carbs struggle to hit 200bhp.
i know a lad who using a standard engine with newman cams and jenveys still can't hit the 200bhp marker.
higher cr would help quite a bit, but again not cheap in terms of throw in and go.
one of the lads at PE has seen so many 200bhp+ zetecs not make their claims on the DD rollers.
not to say an N/A zetec can't make good power, but the best i've heard of/seen was 303bhp, needed dry sump and eight injectors to keep it relatively smooth and lots of development.
just food for thought.

 

cheers for that wishy, good info there, its my mission to prove you wrong so wish(y) me luck lol

I have no idea what to expect as im only going on what a few people (in the know) have explained to me, the near future should be interesting, hopeing to have the engine on the dyno for feb if all goes well

 

I just made an embarrassing mess

 

i want to use whatever rolling road that engine made 260 bhp on. My st170 engine only made 182bhp on twin 45's weber alfa and decent exhaust manifold

 

Why would you take the injection off? dreamscience state their software will get you more than that without touching the engine at all, just their software?

I would swop the injection system for anything other thantbs or forced imo

 

would nt, god i cant type tonight so im going to leave it lol as for my last post im not sure if the std ecu is interlinked to the rest of the car which would probably make the conversion easier with the carbs

 

the first day i had the car out i had a race with a pug 309 on GTi6 running gear, 48`s and mental cams
he would not get away from me and eventually stopped due to his o/s/f caliper catching fire!
other than the engine i was on a 100% standard XR3i car inc gearbox (before the pic above was taken!)

that will give you an idea of how quick it was

 

i was fitting engine into a capri and had the carbs, and you cant use standard st170 blackoak system witouth to much hassle as i runs whole car
Think your getting mixed up in newer turbo st's and dreamscience software

 

Ahh i understand capri, makes sense now, info I got was this
The ST170 used in this test was running on super unleaded fuel and had a Cold Air Induction Kit (C.A.I.S), the tests were done in 12 DegC ambient temperature.
The standard car (Brown line below) with C.A.I.S & Tesco 99 fuel made 176 BHP peak. We loaded our finished Race 97 Induction Tune straight on and saw a big increase all the way in power and torque with a peak BHP figure of 187 BHP (Red line below).
Another big gain from the dreamscience tuned ST170 is the 0 to 60 acceleration due to edited torque tables.

http://www.dreamscience-automotive.c...ocus-st170.php

Could be bollocks I suppose, so many mixed feeling on the subject, really cant wait to see what my setup will give, like I say it will be interesting, especially as its me who is building it :-( lol (with a little help of course)

 

when i put 45`s on mine it lost its balls, totaly lacking in power and just wasnt the same car

id never put carbs on a zetec again IMO

but everyones experiences are different and i used to rev this to 8k all the time, with no issues

 

i also think oil pump issues are only relaited to bossted application and track cars running sticky/slicks, dont think ive read of any normalish tuned na cars having their pumps fail regardless of revs, but I would like a bit more info on this if any one has any, would be a good addition tothis thread

 

i went through various zetec incarnations, all revving to 8k and all on STD pumps

 

dunnell build zetecs, pricey if bought new from them.... but check out their engine spec n power figures..... check options 1,2 and 3 on carbs then on the left there is an injection option with another 4 stages, check them out. the deeper ur pockets the faster ul go! fact!!!!
http://www.dunnellengines.com/zetec_...tionkits_1.php

 

You will struggle to get 150bhp on a NA with a H.O Inlet.

 

Is there a thread on it anywhere?

 

Double post

 

Isn't zacks brown fiesta from power engineering close to 200hp that n/a?? Runs a 13.1 1/4 mile so it's defo got some power!

 

I run a bog standard ST170 engine with Weber Alpha throttle bodies and Ashley 4-branch and last time it was on r/road it gave 193bhp, I reckon cams and head work would take it over 200 comfortably but it's so reliable and quick that not sure I need to.

There is a black mk4 on eBay running a 2.0 Zetec with bodies that claims 208bhp if I mind right, he has fancy cams etc.

Doubt you would see more than 160 on an HO inlet, and I've found best results on a Zetec were with a good sized 4 branch!

 

Sorry, but no way in a million years is that true.

Not seen many throttle bodied or carb'd ST170 engines do good power on the dyno. Lucky to crack 200 bhp a lot of the time. Certainly not possible on bike carbs either.

Zak has a lot of first hand experience with NA Zetecs, sure he'll post.

 

Ill agree 100% zetecs do struggle past 200hp when they are NA

 

So should we keep the 600 bike carbs and megajolt set up?