XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

It's a good, usable set up that works well, but if you're going for all out power it's not the way to go.

Bogg Brothers who are the kings of bike carb conversions do not suggest using them to get massive power.

Turbo Zetec

iTrader: (1)

I would imagine the exhaust side of things would be quite a restriction... Only 27mm valves and small ports can't help airflow much.

vaughant

iTrader: (1)

You've got some skills mate!!!
Smart looking motor as well.

datar18

A guy on shitboxracing.co.uk just put this up:

That made 206bhp.

Miller 3

iTrader: (4)

So will a 170 head fit on a silver/blacktop short block at all?

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

It's just like a normal Blacktop head in terms of fitting so goes straight on. Need some jiggling to the cambelt/tensioner set up to fit it on a Silvertop but can be done.

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

my dunnell 1800 zetec did 203 during mapping but pegged back to 197 when we played with cam timing as the torque was much better through the rev range....on a relatively standard bottom end.
as for the st170 they can do 230 plus with relatively little work and i have heard of that one that does 260.......also heard of the one doing 269......silvertop bottom end 2050cc,steel rods,high comp pistons,bored out hayabusa bodies on MS with svt focus manifold,st170 head(ported) and cat cams and electric water pump.
i have nearly all the bits to build the one for my grasser and will be disappointed if it doesnt do 230+. dta s60,modded cams.ported head,jenveys,svt manifold etc

mattxr3i

Is the Focus ST170 exhaust manifold much better than the Ashley 4 branch?

I have all the ingredients on my zetec to make it near 200bhp but it doesn't feel like a 200bhp car. I am wondering whether the Ashley exhaust 4 branch is strangling it

frsjon

only one ive seen was a rothmans mk2 escort with a 2.0 silvertop forged pistons/rods,cams and twin 40's on omex do 199bhp.. the previous silvertop(standard internals)threw a rod at 180bhp on the dyno

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

post your full spec mate. and the st170 mani is very good.
out of interest what is your exhaust diameter?

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

a good few of the ones that 'throw rods' is due to incorrectly fitted arps.... some of them are not a straight fit on a zetec.

mattxr3i

Full spec is:

Jenvey ITBs
OMEX600
Piper Cams 285s
Ported head
ARP Bolts (7250 rev limit)
Cold air feed and air box
Ashley Exhaust manifold
Mongoose exhaust

Thing is, this is supposed to get close to 200bhp but it doesn't feel like it. It's 155bhp @ the wheels through an MTX75 gearbox. Also it's a 1.8 not a 2.0

What is the best exhaust manifold for a zetec?


Here is a video of me going round Castle Combe in a mk5 XR3i. Not too bad but still not got the final urge of what 200bhp should be.....

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

i would say those cams are wrong for 200bhp. who ported the head? is compression standard? and is it the n/a mongoose exhaust for fiesta rs1800?

Best exhaust manifold in the dunnell one but its a fortune...st170 is a good alternative..... or get one made to suit your spec.

R-A-J

This is becoming a great thread, I have a st170 manifold but im sure crazycage will be developing me a new one,,,,,i Hope

williamson

Where are you lot even getting these figures from, theyr fucking ludicrous :blub: basing the argument/discussion on a 2l blacktop, how can a engine, designed in the mid 90's for a mondeo with minimal mods make 100bhp per litre naturally aspirated???

Genuine 200bhp n/a zetecs seam to be few and far between, I've seen many claim the power and none ever make it. Judging by specs given in this thread mine should make 220-230bhp, you know what it made? 193. And that was good enough to stay next to a '300bhp' cvh series 1 up the strip till 3/4 track loosing by .1 of a second.

If you do want a genuine 200+ bhp follow the spec somone posted about for the 206 bhp engine. Dosnt matter about starting with a st170 engine as a blacktop will do the same at a fraction of the initinal buying cost. Ive seen that car on the dyno and it's stout as fuck.

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

i know mine does it. if they are specced and built properly they do the power.

St170 is a different thing altogether and a blacktop wont do the same IMO.theres a good few engines designed in the 90's that wil do 100bhp a litre with similar mods.
what are you classing as minimal mods?

botters

iTrader: (2)

i wouldnt let bogg brothers mop my floor, they fitted and mapped a bike carb conversion on my mates 2 litre zetec mk3 fiesta he was wondering why it drank fuel like fuck so got it rolling roaded, not only did it only make 140bhp at the fly! they also said the fuelling was a mile out and was only somewhere near correct at full throttle!! he had paid them a fortune as well

mattxr3i

What's your spec then, whilst I agree that figures can be misleading, this thread is about people trying to find out what works and what doesn't. You have stated that you have witnessed what works and what doesn't but you haven't actually told us what.

To counter your argument - maybe your engine wasn't built very well, maybe the rolling road was inaccurate or your gearbox is stuffed. Unless you get your engine on an engine dyno then there is no sure way what power the engine is running. Your '193' could easily be lower in the same way that peoples '200' is higher than the engine actually is. The RR I went to said 200bhp for mine, but as I have said - it doesn't feel like it at all.

As for the ST170 engine, it has larger valves, higher compression and forged rods over the normal blacktop - price them up, I am sure they are more than the difference in cost of buying the ST engine over the blacktop.

xr2wishy

iTrader: (2)

i would listen to williamson, he isn't just a back street tinkerer.
it's not all about power though, delivery is as important.
it really is the strip that makes or breaks a cars figures.

R-A-J

I think it seems that when someone builds a zetec and doesnt get the power they were hoping they tar every other buildthe same stating it cant be done etc etc. as stated the st170 engine is a different breed to the standard zetecs, mountune are getting 250 bhp by simply management changes and tbs afik, im going into my build totally open minded but the people I have been talking too have done a sereous amount of work in research and developing new products. But im pretty confident to make the following statement:

ST170 engine + 45mm+ tbs, mapped PROPERLY + st170 mani should give 200+

Crazycage and rick has already done this (car will be at donny end of this year for the non believers)

Im hoping for around 230 - 250 with my spec, I may not get that or you never know it may give more, but it will be interesting either way.

Ive got my black top zetec head in the workshop so i will get some pics side by side to the st one to show differences in port size if i get chance.

I think davey boy off here is expecting in excess of 300bhp out of his na zetec build!!!!! (he has been a big influence on my build, be it a bad influence lol)

SiZT

His camshafts are considerably better than the standard ones for high power.

Miller, don't bother with the HO inlet. The carbs are too small (imo) but will be fine if you are willing to spend the money and/or time getting them set-up properly

williamson

My spec was:
Un known milliage 2l blacktop zetec
St170 rods and pistons
Arp rod bolts
285ish cams (not 100% sure but they have 11mm of lift)
Ported head with 1mm skim to up compression
Twin 45 dellortos with 38mm chokes
Megajolt
Modded st170 exhaust manifold

It has spent hours on the dyno being set up to get every last bhp out of it, that was done at power engineering on a dyno dynamics roller. I started with a stock engine on the exhaust and carbs then everything was added slowly over time, I can tell you all the figures through the different stages of tune. I say was the spec as its now on injection and a rover inlet as I was going to turbo it but have recently bort some throttle bodies wichita will be on soon.

Believe me I am not complaining about the power mine makes all you have to do is read the fast ford fight club event and you will see the car more than holds it own when compared to cars claiming much higher figures

It's the shitty brown mk2 fiesta by the way.

GUZZLER

iTrader: (3)

If you could address it by its proper name of 'Fiesturd' please

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

nice spec and i would have expected it to crack 200 tbh. couple of questions who did the head? any valve work? what inlet manifold(there a big difference in some and what diameter is your exhaust? i did a 1800 very similar spec to yours and it did 183bhp. if they are 285's theres part of your problem.
be interesting to see what it does on the bodies....can you do back to back graphs?

caprizetec170

[QUOTE=SiZT;6102475]His camshafts are considerably better than the standard ones for high power.

]


no matter how good his cams were theres no way a zetec made 260 bhp with bike throttle bodies and a few simple mods,Its at least 10 to 12k for that sort of power out of a zetec

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=caprizetec170;6102517]
it wasnt a few simple mods....full blown head/cams and bored out hayabusa bodies ,proper exhaust etc...thats 3 i know of do power figures in the 250 area.

16vzetec

im after 200bhp n/a too.
ive just got a 2.0l blacktop engine plus ive got a 2.0l silvertop in my car now.
the silvertop is rattling in the bottom end somewhere so i gotta take it out to see whats going on anyway.
the silvertop head is ported tho so what if i put that on the back top block?
compression might be too high?? i can always skim the pistons at work if it is.
what would be the ideal compression for 200bhp on throttle bodies?
ps also what injectors would i need? will st170 ones flow to 200bhp ok?
and i take it i sould fit arp rod bolts for this kind of power?

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

I'd guess spun shell on no4 for your silvertop.
You would want 12/12.5 to 1 in an ideal world for 200 odd.
Yes st170 injectors will flow enough. 315cc @ 3 bar IIRC.
And yes to rod bolts.

primedog

retracted...

xtatiana01x

st170 engine with 45mm throttle bodies and aftermarket ecu with some choice mods have been seen to do 195bhp

decent exhaust manifold and system, exhaust cam pulley mod.

the only problem with this route is the vvt so you can either use an ecu that controls it correctly (but is pricey if on a budget), or one that just haves the vvt on a switch at a certain rpm (not ideal)

but cat cams have produced a set of vvt delete cams that have proved to have 206bhp on a totally stock engine with 45mm jenveys, but again pricey because you also need the cam pulley delete kit and verniers.


to do it on a zetec you want fully worked head, cams, throttle bodies, lightened and balanced bottom end, arps,better oil pump for revs, and to be honest its a push/gamble to get that figure without fitting high comp pistons and steel rods, you might get away with st170 items

so for me st170 with cat cams vvt delete cams and verniers and throttle bodies done.

or as someone said earlier fit a k20 vtec 190 odd bhp out the box and does fit in a mk3 escort sized bay (ive seen it) just throttle bodies on one of these will see 230/240bhp, but you will need to be good with your fab work.

Beetlejuice

Forget the throttle bodies on a K20 - an RBC inlet, Toda A2 cams and a quality exhaust will get you to around 260-270bhp on a stock bottom end.

xtatiana01x

I would fit a k20, they are light years ahead

Zetec_mk4_XR3i

This one on the Bay claims just over 200 bhp, on a dyno dynamics r/road:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ford-escor...9#ht_601wt_754

My mate has a 2.0 silvertop in his, runs Jenvey throttle bodies, fancy cams, headwork and 4 branch with full Magnex and it did 191bhp, however I think it will be a little more now as head gasket was found to be leaking shortly after, and has now been replaced

Miller 3

iTrader: (4)

Some good info hear altho i still dont know what to do lol

Johnny Knoxville

I was told this made 300 bhp

dug112y

iTrader: (1)

Yeah it did...305 I think .... It was sold to someone in Germany but I think it broke not long afterwards. Lot of work went into that engine.... And it's got the 'proper' exhaust manifold on it. I liked that build.

Johnny Knoxville

On the ragged edge that engine was then, revved its nuts off but still on a standard crank so it could of been that?

neilnewboy

iTrader: (1)

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listin...n_package.html

This 2.1 claiming 264bhp!!

Miller 3

iTrader: (4)

My cousin just tryed to buy that.

Cossie Sean

and the outcome matey?

did he buy it? or going to look at it etc?

i love looking at shit like this, propper motor