my s2 is running 191.9 bhp, was just wondering what i need to do to gain more power, without changing to efi, is possible or is the next stage efi?

ive just bought the car, and running at that bhp, i would think its been cammed, ecu, 31, k&n.

any ideas guys? thanks

 

Stage 2 hybrid turbo, ported polished head, front mount cooler, then after that upgrade management all in my opinion of course.

 

its got a front mount twin fan grs on it, full samco's (4got to say) i think its already been ported and polised

 

Is that at the flywheel?

Big-Dan.

 

If you haven't any proof might be worth doing, and definitly a stage 2 turbo to break the 200bhp barrier

 

It's certainly not ATW with that spec.
As Milesy says a Stage 2 T3 will see you over the 200bhp barrier, but it's if your old MFI fuelling system can accurately deliver enough fuel is the question.
IMO EFI should be the first step on any RST nowadays as the metering unit is 20+years old and unreliable fuelling can kill an engine in a second on a turbo charged car

 

I thought not, lol.

After reading through your threads I'm under the impression that my 190bhp RST is probably really only about 160 atw..

EFI conversion it is then

Big-Dan.

 

160ATW is pretty much bang on what mine is when making 190ATF

 

thats at the wheels, ive got print out dyno reading etc.. from burton power! dated april 30th 2010, plus after driving the car id say its pushing 191.9 bhp, i push new shape civic type r's out of the way

it may have more things done 2 it, i duno, i will check

 

191 at the wheels on mfi ? with no fifth injector ?

 

i know there is no 5th injector, well thats way it says on the paper from burton power!

like i said i duno what its realy got, it may have more things done 2 it

 

Would be very supprised if it was that power at the wheels on mfi.

 

why?

why are alot of people suprised wih mfi set running a little more, with correct set up and propa parts, mfi can run it still!

 

For 191 ATW it would need a Stage 2 T3 and even then it's very doubtful that it can be done on MFI, as it cant be properly mapped, fuelling enough is possible if the metering unit is in good condition but reliablilty will always be an issue.

 

jamsport can get 250bhp with mfi (apparently) wont be at the wheels tho

 

I wonder if that comes with a warranty! lol. I cant imagine an MFI engine lasting long at that power.

 

come on lads, mfi isnt that bad. Mine hasnt run for a while but definately has more than 191bhp at wheels on MFI. Not for one minute saying MFI is reliable or worth keeping, im fast looking like cossy management on mine when I can be arsed, just dont be so quick to write it off.

 

ive had a s2 running 189.9bhp atw at 23psi on mfi ...... so un sure of flywheel figure

full spec was

stage 3 t3
stage 3 big valve head
piper fast road cam with duplex springs ect
standard bottom end
turbo systems chip
arp bolts
3" exhaust system and down pipe
and modified metering unit with s2 black box on it

 

it won't be at the wheels mate, it will be a calc from the wheels to represent the flywheel power.
for reference my approx 180bhp at the fly use to push type-r's out of the way, you have a big weight advantange and along with the torque type-r's ain't a problem

 

it was on a hub dyno so 189.9bhp at the hubs but the metering unit was modified by nms with a nms 3" exhaust system and as said it was a stage3 t3 at 23psi of boost....

ive had like 12 rs turbos now so i know what an rs turbo is like at 180bhp at the flywheel.... cos my first two where at that power but this one was the best spec you can get before going for after market management.

go on the nms web site and look at there stage 4 with 220bhp and only 18psi of boost.... mine was running 23psi with modified metering unit.

 

It's just too unreliable nowadays, not worth risking your engine with big power MFI builds is all I'm saying.
Easy power with a stage 3 T3 so long as you can supply enough fuel.... but as I said above, tooooo unreliable this far down the road.

 

Does anyone offer a drive in / out service for going from MFI to EFI? or going from MFI to cosworth management? Im in Plymouth and wondered if anywhere would do this that is remotely local?

 

i love my mfi.:-p

 

I dont think that mfi is a bad system aslong as you look after it but i wouldent want to run much power using mfi, alot of people will agree that efi is the first step for big power.

as for a drive in drive out mfi - efi jano oddkidd www.oddkiddcreations.co.uk is the only person i know who would convert a system.

 

Everyone has their views.Me personally be running around 250Bhp at flywheel with my fifth injector.Ive had no problem with mfi.Ford never built them to run stupid amounts of fuel.Hence the oldskol Fifth.efi is great,but then so many people do it.I try not to follow the crowd,go down my own route.For the worse or better.You cant floor the efi,its a good system.But some of us like taking the risk.If your after safe and money saving on fuel,plus around 17 to 20Bhp more than mfi,go efi.

 

I think you have done really well getting that power out of your motor mate so well done. On your last statement though saying efi will only give you a 17 - 20bhp gain is a little off base in your situation. Sure at say sub 230bhp this may be true but now you are getting towards that you simply can't control the fuel accuratly at these sort of boost levels, imo injectors are a must when reaching these sort of boost power levels to ensure each cylinder is getting the precise amout of fuel, where as a firth injector may give a nice full power figure, the efi will give a nice power figure/drive no matter what the tps etc as each load site can be adjusted unlike MFI. With efi you can get both huge gains in bhp but also maintain a drivable car, not to mention cold starts etc, my escort was a shylittle thing on a cold morning.

I would say if you want to be different go efi but try something unconventional.

Kelly Baker - Jamsport do a drive in drive out service using their Gotech ecu, picks the cps off the dizzy and they install everything else such as modified injector rail, fuel rail, injectors etc. Price is around Ł1600 if memory serves me right.

Mtech Automotive also do a converion I think.

As said above Jano @ Oddkidd Creations another efi/cossie management guru

 

Yeah i was going by a post on here,that saw a 17Bhp increase over mfi.Thats just an example :-p .Im happy with my motor and just like to state,im not currently running the 5Th injector.John who owned the injector had 270Bhp but turned it down to around 250Bhp to save fuel lol.Ill add another injector if needed lol.But then thats just stupid.Im currently running 196Bhp on standard cam,stage 3 head big valves,at 14Psi.212Torque.With the aid of custom cam,boost increase and fuel and uprated turbo,it be intresting to see what i get.running standard t3 at mo.

 

Fair enough, if thats genuine power then that really is amazing from your spec/boost!!! another freakish engine

I got 185bhp from 14 psi but that was a stage 3 engine/turbo etc :-(

 

p.s. mine was 1.9 as well

 

Casting mind back many years ago, didnt Steven_RW have a freakish CVH that had very few AVA mods but made good power and times to back it up, consistantly too. Know we cant use that for the MFI reliability arguement but for the performance of it I see it as valid. With a new loom and refurbed metering unit I cant see why MFI should be ruled out as a budget option. With the 5th injector (and a few NMS mods)on mine I loved it. AFR setup nice and went very well.

 

Yeah def a freakish engine.Had it in bits and come across nothing to tell me why.It only runs on shell v-power.anything else runs like crap.Normal unleaded big no no,was pinking well bad.Yeah i dont see why not,mfi good considering the age of the system.many cars back in the 80S used same system,even V8s,porsches.If i had another escort,i probably would fit custom managerment.

 

I see what you are trying to do lol. Some people will always be convinced by the numbers they make up in their heads.

 

mm number.love them.even better on dyno sheets!

 

post pics of the sheet then

 

I think the bottom line with MFI is.. Unless you buy a brand new EMFPR, Flap position sensor, fuelling ECU, and metering head, you cannot guarantee accurate reliable fuelling which is just too risky if you've spent good money building up your engine!

If it's an old shitter then fair play bang it around until it melts then build a fresh engine with EFI

 

it wasnt the best set up and it wouldnt have been very reliable but it made it .

if i knew then what i do now i would have gone efi but it was so expensive back then.....

 

and as above ive had loads of problems with mfi aswel as good .... i had one that had the best bits possible and ended up going through 3 metering units untill i could break the 200bhp mark

 

As karlos said, unless the parts are new, or reconditioned and in my opinion running standard fuelling with a good 5th injector setup it will not be a reliable.

Rob,

 

im going down the 5th injector route anyway

 

Well at least you can turn your EMFPA down so that the metering unit is fuelling for upto 7psi as Ford intended (returning some economy and response) and let the 5th do the rest! This will give you a much better chance of reliability and if your using a MF2 (which I guess you are) you can have slightly more accurate fuelling from 7psi to whatever you choose to run.
For people wanting to stay MFI it is the best option really