After recent discussions relating to wether or not you beleive my intentions for my free monitor software project ....
I have come up with a statement/agreement that will displayed in the software and on the website that will distribute it.

I enclose the text below for you to comment on.

It is essentially a modified freeware agreement in that I authorise it for personal and comercial use to anyone free of charge or reward.
This should be enough to prove I will not be making any profit from this in any way.
I will also state that it will never become a software product that I will ever sell.

I will also state that the website where from it will be distributed and developed will not contain adverts or traders of any description at any time.

FYI.. The software will eventually become 100% GNU** when it is at a stage I consider complete then all source code will be made available free of charge to anyone.

** GNU=all aspects of software and source code freely available to all without restriction cost or reward.


I would like an official public statment that this is acceptable..please

Many thanks

Simon (Ford owner and enthusiast)

 

Personally I feel that those are just empty words that you cant be held to, and you could still use PF to gain feedback and exposure for your product and then not decide to go GNU with it.

Given that you promised to go GNU as recently as this week, and are now saying you "might" go GNU later on, I personally wouldnt believe a bloody word you are saying if I was admin unless you stuck to your original statement.

What you are doing there consititutes no more than a promotional freebie giveaway that many companies do all the time.

If mcdonalds came on here asking to give away free ronald mcdonald hats, it would be considered trading, so while you retain all the rights and the ability to profit from this technology I personally see you releasing it on here minus the source code as little more than a marketting exercise.

I dont see why you have changed form the GNU release you promised, unless its to gain commerical advantage in doing so, but given your past record I doubt anyone at all will be surprised on you going back on your word yet again.

IMHO what you are suggesting doing, is a very good marketting strategy to promote awareness of a soon to be released brand, I cant even begin to imagine how you think it is anything like the GNU you suggested before and which Stu agreed to, so I see no reason at all for him to accept this, you have totally changed the deal.

 

Chip,

I can only go GNU if 100% of the source code is published.
As some of the library contents are free for me to include and distribute, they do not allow source code to be published so this will invalidate GNU.
I will need to rewrite these myself to comply.

I may have tried to sell the project as whole to a few people in the past but I have never sold any of this to any one for any money or reward since it started ...FACT.

If I break my agreement, I am sure someone will grass me up and then the admin can ban me without complaint from me.

If I am not allowed to give away FREEWARE does this mean all other freeware links that are often placed on this site (like phone updaters etc,) will be banned ?

 

You highlighted yourself as a trader, I believe that Stu is within his rights to require more proof that you are now not, than you giving away some samples of your products for marketing purposes.
(clearly your aim is product exposure or you wouldnt be so keen to disucss it in public with stu, rather than PM him as is more appopriate)

Apologies if you think its none of my business and only up to Stu to reply, but if that is the case then may I suggest you use the "private messages" function on the forum.


You made a deal with Stu, you are now saying you wont keep your end of that deal, but you expect him to still keep his end of it, I feel that is a big ask personally.

 

I'm looking froward to take a look at the source good

 

what version of the GNU licence were you considering releasing this under ?

 

Chip,
I have no issues in discussing this with anyone at all in a calm manor

I never made any deal, I just stated I would release it as GNU but after taking advice, I cannot do that for the valid reasons I explained above so the next level is freeware.

Your suspisions that I may still be doing this as a trader is wrong.
If I took out GNU, what woudl stop me selling it if I chose to do so...nothing !

The absolute fact is, I have not taken a single penny off anyone for this software at any point and I will never do so.
After much thinking I decided to give it away for free and there are plenty of people who have this already as demo and working test versions that have not paid me anything.

I am in full time employment and have been for over 3 years now.
I have no interest in running a business myself and as I do not want to do that and didnt find a suitable partner for this software, I decided to give it away rather that let all my hard work just be forgotten.

It would have been nice to discuss it on here but its not the end of the world as those interested will use alternate places.
I just thought by giving it away it would once and for all show I am a true enthusiast.

As I stated, if there was any hint of trading, Stu has the ban button at his disposal.

 

Version 2 is what I looked at (the latest one if I am correct )

Portions of the software library prevent this legally.

 

Just to add, once its released, anyone can copy it and give away copies for free.

How could I profit from that ?...lol

 

Well Simon can still publish it if he wishes, it doesnt have to be GNU for him to do that if he wants to, but personally I dont believe that was EVER his real intention.

 

So you dont see how by releasing a basic version of a product, getting people interested in it, and then selling a more advanced version at a later date, you could generate any sales?

So for example, a company like google, I suppose you dont feel that they will EVER make any money as a direct or indirect result of the free search engine they released which became popular?

Crikey, I know you have said several times you are no businessman, but I didnt realise you meant you had literally NO idea how business works at all.

 

Well you are very mistaken and your personal bias is as transparent as air

If I just release the source code without a GNU in place, anyone will be free to take the work and pass it off as there own efforts.
Besides, I want to retain source control until I am happy that it is a completed entity.


All versions will be released the same way, I have never said otherwise.
There will be no charge for updates or upgrades either.
How much clearer do you want me to make it ! LOL

I havent taken a single penny for this so far and will never do so now.
I also have made this public statement saying all this multiple times.

You mentioned about free serach engines making profit, they carry adverts, this software doesnt nor does the site where it will be based.
When the URL is released you are more than welcoem to look for such evidence but you wont find any.

It all very well you looking for excuses to rubbish this idea but I would have though as someone who is a software developer and a car enthusiast, that you would be all for something this.
Stop looking for excuses that you are basing on personal bias towards me until you have proof I have made profit from it please.

 

I have no personal bias towards you at all, why would I have?

And you compeltely missed my point with giving away a free product then adding non free elements later, thats why google now has adverts, initially it was just free, now it isnt and is a multi billion dollar company.

Same with netscape in fact, totally free product initially, but doenst stop it being trade!


As to your comments about I should be all for this as something the community can share and develop. You have totally missed the point that I very much AM for that, which is why I support the idea if done through GNU so others can work on it with you.
Its not a community product if you keep total ownership of it and dont allow others to write their own versions etc using the same core technology.

 

Simon,
Can you please advise why you feel you need to post this here for it to be a success?

Surely you can just set it up and host it yourself and just direct people to it as and when you get emails etc?

I don't understand why you are pushing Stu to let you do it on here .

If it is FREE, it doesn't matter how big or little the publicity you get for this, just do it all off you own back and if people are happy with it, it will take off of it's own volition.

Given the above, it just doesn't make sense of your insistance on having everything published here ?

 

Fook me...

We all know Simon does have problems with telling the "truth" etc....

That as side what's the issue with him giving away some software for people to have some fun with.....

And if it lifts his profile (is that actually possible in Simon's case ?) then so what.....

Just looks to me like people moaning for the sake of it and because Simon can and has been a cock in the past!

Personally I think people having access to the software is more important.....

 

Personally Id want to see the code, as I dont trust him, so fuck just installing something on my PC cause he says its safe.

Ask the people of Troy for some advice mate, lol

 

Simon, will this software be comparable with a common and cheap burner and emulator? If so which ones?

 

We agreed a GNU license and that is all i will be happy with. End of topic really.

 

Agreed... seems odd he needs so much publicity for something thats free. A suspicious man would think he really needed to sell it... LOL

 

Yeah, I would be probably be interested in seeing the source code and I suppose I can understand people being concerned about installing something written by Simon.....hmmm but we know he can be stupid but stupid enough to try an install a trojan on everyone's machine, I doubt it...!

As for not wanting to release the source code until's he happy, I seen plenty of people do the same and spend months before they release it, so they can tidy it up, comment it correctly and QA/test it as much as possible as they know their name will be sh!t if it's not right even if it is free....

 

Perhaps I guess he is trying to lift his profile Stu.....most software peeps who blog and give away software do it for that reason - else they would not bother putting their name on it!

If the right person sees it and likes it then perhaps they may offer Simon some work or a job - the fact it won't last very long is besides the point

I can't see a problem with that...people do it all the time....

 

Persistent fucker isnt he

 

Really ? That not my opinion

Do you really think I could really make that much money ?...PMSL.
It doesnt have adverts nor does the site and it wont do...FACT

Bullshit, if you wnat to contribute make suggestions for changes and features that are valid and I will include them without asking for money...LOL

You clearly dont mind doing work and then let anyone plaigerise it.. I wont let that happen.

Besides, I will be publishing enough information that anyone could create there own program from scratch...


Mike,
Please give me a valid reason why I can not share my knowledge with the community other than the lame trader one. ?


LOL, Agreed

Only with YB IAW ecu's at present.


Stu,
With respect, you know as well as I do you are only sticking to that as a delaying tactic.
Strange you dropped your prices for your lower spec version product just as all this was becoming public
This will be fully published for free along with many secrets you and others are trying to keep out the public domain.
Just have the balls to admit you are doing this for no other reason than to protect yourself and your trade. LOL

Stu, strange that you mention its free and your are doing your best to stop it now that you realise its full potential....

 

Sorry, what product?



How is you releasing information about a 25 year old IAW ECU ever going to affect my trade?

 

Simon. Your becoming tiring with your whinging.
The facts:

You asked can you dicuss a product on PF promising that it would never be offered for sale by you.
I agreed.

Within days, you were actively offering it for sale.
I removed it as your not a PF trader.

The end.

 

IAW Monitor but then you know exactly what I am on about.

Well if people have access to open hex files I have collected over the years, ecu program listings for nearly all chips out there , encryption methods and bypasses, protocol information and know how to enable stuff like ALS, LC, coil packs, mapping etc and you dont have concerns then I am wrong. Sorry ...

 

Simon,
It may be me reading between the lines, but based on your comments to Stu, the only reason you want to do this and do it for free is in a lame attempt to take business off legitimate traders, JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN .

That doesn't seem like a very good way of approaching someone to advertise it .

"Yo Stu, I want to deliberately set about trying to fuck your business up as best I can, so can you please allow me to use your well established website to do this?"

And you wonder why people are wary of you and think you have alterior motives - and yet you claim Chip's posts are transparent .

You might be a clever man, but you're an arsehole with it .

 

Mike,
Did Harvey tell you to say all this ? ..LOL

Tuners have had 25 years to take advantage of the chip trade as stu has said...

And lets not forget, YB chips are little more than pirated software.
Why are the few allowed to use it and make money yet I am not for free..LOL

Yes I am doing it because I can.. How else would it be possible for me...ROFL
It certainly has nothing to do with business.

My arsehole status is irrelivant and I find that comment offensive coming from someone who is supposed to set an example here but I guess you as a moderator can get away with that.

If Stu wishes to silence me on here he will and has done effictively by refusing my genuine offer in the very first post on this thread.

I have had huge interest in this from many users and enthusiasts and its for them I do this but then this site isnt really about enthusiasts anymore...is it ?...


Good to see Tony is a trader now...

 

Mate, IAW monitor is an RP Labs product not mine, and its not been dropped in price at all, (Bar a january sale) so your info is wrong. The profit i make from selling anopthers product is hardly going to bankrupt me, and I know Nikola can respond to your competition with aggressive pricing if need be. his product is the bollox, i use it regularly and it is outstanding, polished and reliable.


Mate, let me educate you a little about my business as you seem to think we just do old weber stuff.


Here are my google analytics for last week on my website...




As you can see, i have served nearly 29000 pages this week alone to potential customers....

Here are the pages i push with Google Adwords, you can see my chip search is extremely popular.. as are my turbo diesel pages, in fact, here are my top 25 pages...





Do you see any Weber related pages in there? No.
So, since my chip search is so popular, I bet it shocks you to see that I care about your weber project so much that, wait for it, I dont even list our own Weber chips / ALS / LC etc on my busy search database.

Thats how much I am worried about you droppng my Weber sales, and thats presuming that for some reason, people understanding the ecu would affect my sales at all. I suspect they would actually go up.

The ability to understand a program on a laptop will never make you a mapper mate, as you well know yourself...

 

I wasn't even aware that Harvey was aware of this, and it won't affect him in any way, shape or form. He already has full mapping software for all the Webber ECUs as provided to him by Pectel. Most people want things mapped by someone that knows what they are doing, so with the prospect of plenty of engine failures being induced by DIY mapping, it can only be a good thing for him .

As far as I am concerned, you can do what you like, how you like, when you like, but given your snide comments and OBVIOUS alterior motives on your true intentions, I wouldn't give you the time of day to do it here (see my comment previously ) if I was Stu. However, I am just a mod and not admin, or you would have been banned LONG ago, as you have no morals, and just want to fuck people over to score some imaginary internet points .

If you were serious about just wanting to help people, then you wouldn't be talking about this, you would be doing it off your own back, on your own site etc. The fact that you want to do the "look at me" bit and trying to belittle Stu, just shows that the ONLY reason you're doing this is for some sort of personal vendetta against the "Cossie tuners" and not because you want to genuinely help the normal people on this site.

Chip and Stu are TOTALLY right not to trust you, as you're just doing this out of mallice and nothing more.

 

This all seems very unfair on Simon.

 

Stu,

Where have I said its my intention to take business off you ? ... I didnt
In fact you have told me many times theres no money in it and I agree..LOL
(I wont be asking for money for any of this so I fail to see why you think that)

Where have I said I am a "proper" mapper ? .. I am not and always stated that.


Mike,
You are entitled to your opinion as am I but you hind behind the infractions system now so cant say anything to you and wont fall into your intended trap

I am resigned that I will be unable to discuss this freely on here due to the incredible bias by people with personal issues and tuners connections...

It would have been nice to share openly everything on here but if Stu doesnt want that as is blatently obvious then I cant and wont so.

At least all the bias is on display for everyone to see.

Thanks for everyones time, I wont mention it again as long as no one else does

 

No Simon, you insinuated that I think that it will take business away from me and you insinuate that this is teh reason why i wont let you do it via PF. I have for that reason proven that its such a small part of my business I don't really care one way or another mate, in fact, it interests me and look forward to seeing if its any better than has been done before.

Just shove it on a GNU so we all know its not for commercial gain and discuss away, i truly do not see you problem. Everyone else here can see and read that I am happy for you to do it, so just do it and stop wasting time whining and groaning that you cant have your own bloody way.

 

Simon,
My view is obtained by reading your comments. You know what you are intending, as you carefully word them so that the implication is there. You never say it directly, but the digs at Stu are obvious.

This won't affect me, so I have no bias, but I can see a mile off what you WANT to try and achieve, and you're too self centred to just go away and do what you say you're going to do (because it's NOT really about helping people), you want adoration or to shaft someone to make you feel good about it, this is for no-one else but yourself.

Prove me wrong .

 

Stu,
You obviously know nothing about GNU as I stated in earlier on in the thread why that isnt an option at present to to the fact my program contains portions of library code by others that the source is NOT freely distributable which breaks the latest GNU terms and law if I did release it all 100%.

There is plenty of FREEWARE out there without source code that you dont pay for
I am being 100% genuine about this being a non profit entity despite your opinion.

Its obvious you wont listen to a reasonable argument for reasons we both know so as I said before, I am resigned to the status quo.



Mike,
I dont care what you think and have no need to prove you wrong as its already happening

Unfortunately, proving it here will get me infractions

You say you have no bias... thats utter crap, we have history thats common knowledge.

So what if I want recognition about this, its my project and R+D.
In fact you helped me start it all if you remember...LOL.

I will add your name to the list of credits and thanks on the website..

 

Simon,
You keep going on about your history, as if that is everyone elses fault bar your own .

The facts of our "history" are:

You CONSTANTLY let me and your customers down, told blatant lies about delivery times - even to the extent of saying things had been sent when they had not.

I got pissed off with this and decided not to use you again.

I then saw what a muddle you were getting in, as you were STILL doing this to people even after I slated you for it. However, as you're such a clever chap, I hated the thought of you going to waste and if you got yourself sorted, there was a good opportunity for us BOTH to profit from it, and so I offered to step in and liaise between you and your customers to resolve your "issues" of poor customer service, by going through me.

However, despite this, you still carried on in the usual same vien and continued to spin your bullshit lies to me and everyone else, even when I was trying to help you . All you had to do was be 100% honest, and you failed EPICALLY to do this.

So I again decided to leave you to it and washed my hands of you.

That is the extent of our "history" as far as I am concerned, so how you feel I have any bias towards you (other than not believing a word you say based on past experience) is strange.

So my comment still stands - prove you're not full of shit and that you don't have alterior motives. Stu, Tony, myself and even Chip (plus I'm sure MANY others) can see right through you, because of your constant little digs and sly comments.

I would prefer it if you didn't put me down, as I am scared of what people might think if they believe that I want to be associated with you in any way, shape or form .

 

Mike,

I would have left this topic RIP but as you have replied....

My faults in the past are well known and documented and I have even held my hands up and admitted it...so what !
You are now your adding extra non topic old info in an effort to deflect the fact I have been treated with bias... So predictable of you..LOL
What ever may or may not have happened in the past is irrelivant to this whole discussion.

As you are reminding everyone about my mistakes, what about your abuse of your moderator position a few years ago to threaten to move threads around in and out of public view from the dummy room if I did not comply with you own personal business requirements...
One good reason why moderators shouldnt be official traders..IMO. !
Add to that you openly accused me of hacking your PF account and deleting your resto thread without a shred of proof (I deny this all of course).
Your not biased at are you.? ..LOL

Anyway, There has been a good development today that will resolve all these current issues once and for all but I wont spoil the surprise just yet

 

I was just trying to point out that our "history" has no relevance on this thread, and FYI, I wasn't the one that brought this up YOU were .

And please advise how the above is abuse of moderation powers? When there is an issue with the fact that someone could potentially be mislead by another member, it is our duty to protect board members from people like this.

As to my accusation, I think you might find that this is well supported now .

FYI I will always moderate posts objectively or where this is impossible, request help from other mods. However, what I WON'T do, is moderate a thread that I believe I could not do objectively (Chip's recent outbursts being a point of proof of this ).

As to the bias you feel you are receiving, as I said, this is only because you are a known "troublemaker", and are treated as such (along with several others that post in the same vein as you), so don't feel singled out - you're not that special .

Glad you have sorted things .

 

Mike, its clear to me our history is in your reasoning, maybe not to others.

Please dont kid yourself, the only person you were worried about in that matter was yourself


Why ? Because You, Stu and Chip say so ? All 3 that have personal and/or business bias in this matter..LOL

Wheres the proof since my recent statement that I have tried to sell this or any part of it to anyone ? - I havent and wont do !

Apart from that one incident back then, I fully agree

Not that special...Hah !,
Thats why all the moderators have been asked to watch me.
Also, I am aware that my PM's are being monitored. ..

As for being a "trouble maker", I will complain about things I dont agree with.
I have done so in the right room in a calm and collected manor without resorting to insults.

 

For fucks sake, can't you just get on with something without creating a drama?