TomPengelly

I have a fiesta xr2i 16v (1.8 silvertop zetec)

I want to do a 2.0 turbo conversion- on a budget. To make things simple, i was going to fit a 2.0 silvertop block, using focus rs rods and pistons.

Apart from these, can i use everything else from my 1.8? ie, crank, sump, oil pump, water pump, head, cams ect??

Other plans were rover turbo inlet, focus rs exhaust manifold and turbo (mabey uprated to t28) ect

Any comments on this before i pick these parts up tomorrow?

Cheers, Tom

mark826

I wouldn't use a 1.8 head on a 2.0 block

TomPengelly

The head has 2.0 cams, would there be any other differences?

De4n0

Off the top of my head and on a budget you'd probobly be best with, standard 2.0l exhaust cam and the 1.8 inlet cam, 2.0l head, rs pistons and rods, rs management, 2.0l inlet manifold, rs throttle body and elbow, 1.8 water/oil pumps, front mount intercoolers standard rs exhaust manifold, garrett t25 turbo (standard rs), rs exhaust. You'll need to weld a fitting into your block for the oil return.

There's a lot more to think about than you'd think, a lot of research to be done.

De4n0

Not really, the 1.8 inlet cam has lower lift but holds the valve open longer so let's in more air, a lot of rs lads tend to change out there 2.0l cam to the 1.8.

mark826

Dont quote me on this but Im sure that the 1.8 head on a 2 litre engine block will raise the compression ratio

TomPengelly

Today i picked up focus rs rods and exhaust manifold, the bloke had 2 pistons so i need to find another 2 yet...

Also got a rover turbo inlet manifold, adaptor plate and throttle body

He also gave me a focus rs block, crank and oil pump but the block needs a re-bore as its badly scored. I expect this will end up in the scrap pile as i was going to stay silvertop...

So next on the list just to get the bottom end done are 2 more frs pistons, a 2.0 silvertop block, a ring set, main and big end shells- then once ive taken my 1.8 engine out i can use the crank, sump, oil and water pumps ect from that?

Then i was going to re-use the 1.8 head- taking your advise about using the 1.8 inlet and 2.0 exhaust cams, and then some stronger valve springs and a focus rs or st170 headgasket...

Im aiming for around 300bhp. Would it be worth me porting/polishing the head, 3 angle valve seats ect, or would a standard head with uprated valve springs be ok?

Before i build it all up il also fit the oil return for the turbo. Anything else i should think about at this stage?

luke89

iTrader: (1)

Don't use a 1.8 head on the 2.0 and defo don't use a st170 head gaskit along with it unless ur trying for real high comp
I am using st170 bottom end 2.0Ltr black top head and frs hg and manifolds ( when I can bring my self to use the cossie every day till it's done ! )

TomPengelly

Oh ok- il grab a 2.0 head then. And i thought an st170 one lowered the compression. Not sure where i heard that- so il use a focus rs gasket too?

De4n0

If your using rs pistons theres no need to lower the comp ratio any more just use an rs gasket, youll need to think about where your going to get your oil feed from also and make sure the oil return pipe is bigger than the feed, this prevents oil pressure building in the turbo and pushing past any seals.
I Wouldnt bother with porting the head but the engine would respond well to some valve seat work.
Depending what management your using youll need to get the inlet temp sensor that is on the rs inlet elbow,
And youll need to uprate the injectors and possibly the fuel pump.

Rs injectors or siemens.
Dw65 pump.

TomPengelly

Cheers for the info. Was going to get oil feed from oil pressure swich with a t piece?

And hoping to use an omex 600 ecu.

Would standard rs injectors be ok for around 300bhp? I assume they will fit the rover turbo manifold im using. If not i could get some that would fit that are the same cc?

And yes il uprate the pump too

Cheers

Turbo Zetec

iTrader: (1)

st170 gasket is thicker so will lower the compression if you feel you need to. A silvertop head has an extra 8cc's roughly in the combustion chamber over a black top, which means the pistons would make lower compression in a silvertop anyway.

you may struggle to find a focus RS ring set too...

De4n0

Yea i doubt you get a focus rs ring set as said, youd be better off in the long term either re-using the rings or getting some supertech pistons but i dont think the supertechs fit onto standard rs rods so some eagle rods would be a good bet.
I cant comment on the injectors fitting the rs manifold but the standard rs injectors will be fine at 300hp.

TomPengelly

Looks like you are right about the ring set!! Im dropping a piston to an engineering shop, they are going to see if they can match something up. Im also after 1 other new or used standard frs piston.

If i am lucky and find a 4th piston and a ring set, do the frs pistons and rods defanatly fit the 2.0 silvertop block?

And do i still use the 2.0 silvertop crank?

Do i order main and big end shells for a silvertop or a focus rs? Or are they both the same?

And will get focus arp rod bolts?

Cheers

TomPengelly

Change of plan- found a set of new genuine frs pistons with rings. Il get these ordered up

frsjon

just remember you need a good/standard size block which ever you use due to the piston size. if i was in your situation id look for a low mile 2.0 blacktop and fit the focus rs pistons/rods to it

TomPengelly

Cheers for the reply. I will bear that in mind if i cant get an 'as new' block

If i do decide to use the silvertop block and head, can i keep my 1.8 crank? Is it only the block and head i need from the 2.0, can i keep all the rest from the 1.8?

TomPengelly

Does the black top have a bigger bore size? Do i need to get it bored to fit the frs pistons?

Just wondered why you advise going with blacktop?

Cheers in advance- appreciate the advice

frsjon

well the focus rs block is a blacktop so a perfect fit. im not 100% if original bore size is the same between silver/blacktops so cant comment.cranks are the same between them all

Smidydevil

Blacktop rods are a little shorter/longer than silvertop as blacktop Pistons and rods fitted to a silvertop stick out the block a few mm so you would need silvertop rods to run the RS Pistons in the silvertop. 1.8 head and 2l head are the same head aslong as they're both silver or blacktop so wouldn't worry about the head just cams and valve springs, Injectors for 300hp I would be inclined towards RS injectors, astra vxr injectors or the rover turbo do some high cc injectors, I have red bands which are meant to be 380cc at 3 bar

Turbo Zetec

iTrader: (1)

Makes bugger all difference really if you use silver or black top. Silvertop is probably the easiest DIY build due to the hydraulics in the head... Shimming the blacktop can take some time if you've never done it before. You will need FRS rods for those pistons, neither silver top, black top or st170 rods will fit. The bore size is the same on the 2.0's at 84.8mm so your RS pistons will go straight in. Obviously you need a reasonably good bore to start with though, as one with bad wear will need liners if you intend to use standard FRS pistons.

TomPengelly

Thanks for the replies- got some different answers so makes it a bit confusing lol. Some say frs rods and pistons will be too long to go in a silvertop- which ideally is what i want to do, some say it will be fine as long as the block has no wear.

If i do decide to go blacktop, if i source a block and head, can i use everything else from my 1.8 silvertop? ie, sump, strainer, water pump, oil pump ect?

Cheers in advance

TomPengelly

If i do go silvertop and the frs pistons and rods will fit, can i just get my 1.8 block bored to fit the pistons? Then it will be a fresh bore with no wear?

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

I always understood it that the Focus RS pistons and rods will fit in any Zetec block. However, you need a mint block with no wear as the pistons are standard bore. And you can't bore a 1.8 block as the walls are too thin.

TomPengelly

Thanks, are the crankshafts both the same in blacktop and silvertop?

frsjon

cranks are the same

TomPengelly

Thanks for everyones replies.

I think i will sell my frs rod on, save the 300 that the new frs pistons would cost and just buy an ST170 engine and blacktop head, fit ARP rod bolts and uprated valve springs and thats the engine done?!

The only thing i thought about was compression ratio?

Will it be ok using an st170 gasket?

Il get this engine sorted and rebuilt then carry on from there!

Any other parts i need to find to fit this where my 1.8 silvertop currently is?

Sump ect?

studabear

Read Karlos G's guide

De4n0

If I was you I'd just get the lowest mile 2.0l black top engine you can get, fit it with frs pistons and rods, standard valves, uprated springs (I heard the Peugeot 106 gti springs work well) weld an oil return to the sump, and t piece on the oil pressure switch and job done, will save you a lot of messing around and you'd basically have an rs engine.

TomPengelly

Just read his guide. My brain hurts now!! Lol

So i already have a set of frs rods. My choice is either

Spend Ł300 on new frs pistons, then find a decent blacktop engine to fit them too with the rods

Or

Spend Ł300 on an ST170 engine that has rods and pistons and everything else i can use already on it.

Whats best??

I take it the only difference between a normal black top and st170 are the rods, pistons and head as its vvt that i wont be using anyway?

De4n0

You mean using standard st170 internals for a turbo conversion? Not heard anything about that but I think the easiest and in my eyes more reliable way would be to get the black top, in the end you'd end up with a setup that is made to be turbo charged and anything you need for it will be easy to get as there's many after market zetec turbo or focus rs parts made.

TomPengelly

I think this is what il end up doing. Using frs rods and pistons. Any reason to use a blacktop over a silvertop 2.0? Just that i already have a 1.8 silvertop in there, so would only need a really good condition silvertop block on its own, then re-use my 1.8 parts?

Some people say the frs rods and pistons fit the silvertop fine, others say they will be too long for the block- so i need to find this out for definite really?!

De4n0

I'm not sure about that but either way you'll need a 2.0l block and head, I think it would be easier to find a low milage black top than a silver top. And with the frs pistons and rods being made for the black top block it would just make sense to get the black top, I don't know what you want to re-use but black tops are that cheap these days you can pick them up fully fitted for next to nothing.

XRT_si

iTrader: (2)

IMO you're over complicating it. Follow Karlos' guide to the letter; it's easier, will take less time and is a tried and tested route that requires little effort in comparison. I.e. You don't have to go building it from scratch.

marky_g

Serious budget build check this thread out "for anyone interested in a zetec turbo"

350bhp safe no need for Pistons using st170/blacktop parts

iPads being s nob won't let me copy the link

studabear

So I only needed a oil filter from a focus

marky_g

hoped no one would see that

TomPengelly

After a month or so of the fiesta being put on hold, im back on it now!

After all the confusion and not knowing what route to go down- i decided to keep the original engine (1.8 silvertop)

The parts i already have are:

Focus rs turbo and exhaust manifold, rover turbo inlet manifold with adaptor plate and throttle body and injectors, devil developments valve springs, prime performance forged rods modified for 1.8 20v turbo vw/audi pistons, a set of ARY vw pistons, omex 600 ecu and unmade loom, breather blanking plate, oil feed t piece, ARP rod bolts

I have stripped the engine- i need to order a set of oversize main and big end shells and a set of piston rings, then will get the block bored and crank re-ground (there are a couple of tiny marks- would rather get them sorted)

Then its time to build the basic engine. I will get a complete engine gasket set, but still unsure on what head gasket to use. Any advise on this?

Also, anything else i should do or check before i rebuild?

Only other thing i was going to do was get the block and head skimmed...

My aim is 300bhp. Would i get that with a standard head apart from valve springs? Or would i need port/polish, 3 angle seats ect for better flow?

Thanks in advance, appreciate any advice!!

TomPengelly

Also, my engine does not have oil squirters/jets under the pistons like my other 2.0 silvertop had. Would this matter?

And i have a pair of 2.0 cams and a pair of the standard 105 1.8 cams. Whats the best combination to use on my build?

TomPengelly