space.cowboy

Hello I am new to the board it seems very nice. My Name is Chris and I am from the United States. I have been working on project car a 1993 Ford Mustang for the past year and one of the projects is to convert the car to an AWD vehicle. I was searching AWD systems yesterday and I came across the Ford Escort RS Cosworth. It would appear that the system is a good one and might be able to be used for my applications. I just have a few questions about it though.

1. Is the Ford Escort RS Cosworth a rear wheel drive vehicle or a front wheel drive with out the AWD system on it?
2. Does any body have more information on this car especially the AWD system, It tuff to find websites with information on it.
3. Can any body help me put together a parts list on the system?
4. I also need to information on how to contact Ford Europe to try to get parts for it.

Thank you for you time on reading this message alonw with any help that you guys can provide me.

Chris

july1

iTrader: (1)

The escort Cosworth has a modified floor to receive the engine and transmission.
The engine is in longitudinal position when all the rest of the escort production was transversal.
This car has only been produced as a 4wd (all the rest is FWD except the 2000 RS 4x4 (I don't know what has been sold on USA (I know the cossie weren't but for the rest??)
The engine is based on the sierra plant, which has been early made as a RWD.
The system has a torque repartition of 60/40 so it has a (little) feeling of a RWD. To improve feeling and reduce the loss of power some people change the transfer box ratio to have 50/50.

I don’t have any clue for website of conversions but you should find some help here!
By the way some parts are no longer produced by Ford so you may have to buy second hand stuff (you'll find plenty of parts on the sale section).

Good luck for your project and add some picture if you go for a cossie setup

space.cowboy

Thank you so much for the info.

Did they come with a Transaxle or is the transmission underneath the Driver?

Meaning does it go Engine > transmission > Differential > Front Drive shaft / Rear Drive shaft
Like the BMW xDrive or the Infinity AWD system

Or does it go Engine > transmission > Differential > right to the Front Differential then comes out the drive shaft the rear differential like Like the Audi A4

MIbluEscos

Chris-
The Escort RS Cosworth drivetrain layout is similar to a US pickup. Longitudinal engine -> transmission with integrated transfer case -> drive shaft to front axle -> driveshaft to rear axle. The MT75 transmission/transfer case can be sourced out of the UK.
The problem you will run into is with the front axle. On both the Escort RS Cosworth and the Sierra RS Cosworth it is integrated in the 2.0L engine oil pan.

E-mail me if you could use pics of the drivetrain.

space.cowboy

Thank you for the Info Jeff. That how I thought it was designed however the transfer case and the transmission are one in the same on the Corsworths? That's not good I wanted to use my T-5 or get a T-56 and create a cuppoling to hook up the whatever AWD system I put into it.

For the front wheels I am thinking about using a ford Probe axles and drive assamblie

MIbluEscos

Check out this link for pics of the MT75 and the T5 transmissions (3/4 of the way down the page).
http://www.zetecinside.com/xr2/gearbox.htm

space.cowboy

LMAO I found that page a few min ago right before you posted. Yea I guess they are two diffrent animals

sailorbob

Converting the T56 to 4wd can be done but its a lot of work. I've seen a TVR fitted with a T56 box and MT75 transfer box. It was pretty much a one off as far as I know.

space.cowboy

Thank you for the info. Right now I am wokring with a T-5 and a 5.0L engine. I am going to have work done to the engine & to the T-5. However if it's not what I am looking for in regards to power I am going to upgrade the engine to a 5.6L and go with a T-56 tans.

Here is what I am thining about doing. I already have the T-5 and need to get the transfer box off of a MT75. After I have the two componits have my brother desing a couplaing / adapter that will bolt right up to the T-5's out put shaft and bolt right onto the Transferbox of the Mt-75. I could have it water jet cut or laser cut I know of a few plants around that do the CMC machining.

What do you think of that consept? I think it will work.

whitneyd

Hey Chris, I've thought about making the T56 into an all wheel drive trans also. I want it because it's strong and has an extra gear for the highway. BTW I'm an American living in Italy. If you need any help or pics let me know and I'll try to help you. Also I know Mustangs up and down as I've owned about 3 of them. I was thinking of putting one of my spare engines in a LX and running it against some of the locals.

sailorbob

There may be an off the shelf solution when using a T5, I believe the 1982 - 1985 Jeep CJ-7 had a T5 gearbox with a Dana 300 transfer box. Don't know how strong these are though.

space.cowboy

I think the only problem with that solution would be the Transfer box. The Transfer case normaly in Jeeps and trucks are missing the Center Diff. The reason why I am looking at the ford escort transfer box is due ot that center diff top give me more flexablity with the distrubtion of power.

july1

iTrader: (1)

Sell your mustang and by a complete cossie!!! The V8 sounds better and has more torque but you will enjoy to drive a supercharged engine and to own a car not seen on streets!

space.cowboy

Yea yea yea. However once I have a mustang that can go up a snow ramp I will have a one of a kind stang.

space.cowboy

I just was told from Ford Parts UK that they no longer carry the transfercase for the Escort Corsworth does anybody have any websites or other companies that might offer one?

Thank you
Chris

sailorbob

The Escort Cosworth transfer box is the same as the Sierra Cosworth 4x4 transfer box, there are plenty of second hand ones around. These are essentially the same as the standard Sierra and Granada/Scorpio 4x4 transfer boxes except for a vent hole for the double lipped radial oil seal if you have difficulty sourcing a Cosworth unit.

space.cowboy

Well the only problem with that is that I live in the USA. Do you know of any websites that would sell them or the number of any junk yards that I can call or any other info on obtaining one will be helpful.

Thank you for the reply and thank you for the info

Chris

sailorbob

I don't know the likelyhood of getting just a transfer box on it's own but I've seen secondhand Sierra boxes for about £200.00, there's a Cosworth box on Ebay at the moment http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...sPageName=WDVW

sailorbob

Looks like early Granada 4x4 gearboxes were T5 based, see the picture on http://hometown.aol.co.uk/simonmd2000/4x4granada2.html

JulianHJ

Which model TVR was this? I've heard of a 4x4 Griff in existence somewhere...

sailorbob

Yes, it was a TVR Griffith, converted by Dave Plant of DJM Motorsport.

dojj

iTrader: (3)

there have been sierra xr4x4 boxes on ebay that went for as low as £50
you'd still need to faff about with the bellhousing as it's an integral part of the casing on the MT75

the split is 66/34 and from what i have seen, due to the nature of the split being the size of the gears inside the transfer box, you can't make it 50/50

JustMe

Sorry for digging this up frome the dead, but wanted to know, what has been done to change the 4wd ratio from 60/40 to 50/50? Is it simple by changing the gear inside or does it mean that the whole central diff has to be changed?

Thanks and regards,
Rain

dojj

iTrader: (3)

it's the way the gears are split inside the transfer box
there would be no way to split the torque without changing the whole transfer box

it's because the box turns twice to the rar as opposed to the front that you get more torque to the rear

it's really complicated without pics, and seeing as me baby is home now, i won't be able to get any until the morning at the earliest

JustMe

I'm not sure how the box is built, but if there is possible to change gears which pass the torque to the rear, then it should work?

Is there some special company who sells this kind of gears? Or do we have to get these from another cars box?

dojj

iTrader: (3)

pics will be up as son as i've finished figuring out how to build stuff from ikea

they say a picture is worth a thousand words, this will show you exactly why it's split that way

dojj

iTrader: (3)

ok then, here are the various bits that go into the transfer box:

you've got the input from the gearbox for starters


the spline on the end of which, turns this


which, through the power of gear reduction magic, turns this


this is what makes the torque slipt the 1/3 forwards 2/3 backwards, it's got 3 sets of slipnes in it in order to take the drive from the 3 cogs and transmit drive to this bit on the rear end


and this bit on the front

this long cog also drives the viscous coupling in the transfer box


as you can see, there are a set of slipnes on the inside and a set of splines on the outside of the viscous coupling
this is to make sure that the inner bit turns at the same rate as the outer bit (but more on that later)

the bit that sticks out through the middle of the centre of the viscouls coupling also drives this

again, more on that arcane art later on

so, you have this bit

sitting in this bit, like so

but it's not being driven by this bit
there is no mechanical drive transmited through this bit whatsoever at this time
that happens when this bit is slide over the top like so

remember the 3 sets of splines i mentioned earlier?
the central section gets driven by the 3 cogs and the rear section drives this bit

this time i've shown it WITH the drive gear in place
then you have this bit

which sits inside the 3 cogs
this is what causes the rear shaft to spin at twice the speed on the front shaft
onto this you slide the viscous coupling like this

and you can see that there is a fair amount still sticking out the middle
thats not a problem, because they drive this bit

which is the drive gear for the front prop
it spins this chain

which costs £160 from ford apparently (well, thats what i was charged )
and that chain drives this bit

as you can see, that bit's also got the hole in it for the splines from the front prop to slot into

as you can see, it's fairly smple but it's a bit of a nightmare to explain to anyone
what you should realise though is that when the viscous fails, it will only drive the wheel thats got the least amount of resistance
maddoldbugger discovered this when he blew his viscous, with one front wheel up in the air and the car in gear, that one wheel would rotate quite happily with no drive going to the rest of the wheels
the only reason your cars move when the viscous is shagged is because all the wheels are spinning at the same time, so you get drive, but if you were to remove the front prop you would find that the viscous is the only thing thats transmitting drive to the rear wheels until it fails, then you have no drive whatsoever

told you it's all a bit complicated and magical

ok, hopefully thats explained what everyone wanted to know, but you can't get the split to go 50/50 unless you change that central cog system and change the diffs to the same ratio

esv

Very nice info about the 33/67 torque-split in the MT75 box!

Does this mean that the CWP-ratio in the rear diff and the front diff are different?
As I understand it, the planetary gear alters the speed between front- and rear output, or do I misunderstand the whole thing?

I belive I have read that R&D Transmission has a version of the MT75 for competition use, and that was described as 50/50 split with viscous center-differential.

Anybody know anything about this transmission?

By the way, does R&D have a website?

ESV

dojj

iTrader: (3)

the diffs are the same ratio but because the front power is transfered by a cog twice the size, you get half the torque

if you look at the second picture form the bottom you will see that the rear power is transfered by the small shaft and the front power is sent via the bigger cog on the chain
the internal mechanismes turn at different rates but the output is the same speed, the output the from the gearbox is also the same as you would normally find on a rwd box, but the speed up and speed down inside makes it the same again as the normal rwd setup

it's all a bit complicated until you've got one in bitsin your hands so yo ucan see what you are talking baout, if i could put up a moving diagram i would but i nither have the skills nor the programmes to do it

esv

Ahh, know I understand that there is no difference in speed between the output front and rear.

Only one thing a bit unclear:

Does this mean the viscous unit runs constantly with a slip because of the internal speed difference?

ESV

dojj

iTrader: (3)

the vc is like on a normal car (as in a normal diff)
the only difference is that it's an almost instantanious lsd, none of this "x amount of slip before it grabs" business

because the front and rear props are turning at the same speeds the diff is fine, when you go round a corner, the (i think i remember what it's all about) ackerman steering principle means that the diffs front and rear do the work rather than the centre one
it's only when you put drive into the box that you get a slip in the front and rear props when the traction starts to break on the rear, the front prop sees drive going to it to power up the front wheels

in a straight line, it's a normal 2wd car under normal conditions
when there is any sort of drive being sent through, everything is ready to give the extra drive to the front

as i said, unless you see it in your hands and understand what it's all about, it's a bit tough to get your head around, for the best part of 18 months i thought i knew what i was talking about in relation to the drive, but then i found that i was thinking along the wrong lines, failure of the viscous means you nly get drive to the wheel with the least amount of resistance, as in an open diff