HirenRS

my 2.0 zetec turbo is smoking a lot!....t3 frst manifolds, i am using a sierra cossie oil seperator venting to atmosphere a bailey one i got from burton last week...since then my car went into garage i took sump off drilled a bigger union into block the one which was supplied with the swirl pot kit, i used all bailey hoses provided with fitting kit, i use rocker cover breather and a block brether from where crank locking tool goes in this has been drilled open, since drilling this open the car produced large amounts of smoke blue/white oil is good not mixing water looks fine, turbo return is on the top of sump on front side....anyways i have now got a lot of smoke progressive with revs cant drive it as it throws a lot of smoke dont know what it could be , intercooler looks dry aswell i clenaed it a week ago and checked other day was spot less, no play in turbo really and no oil in the intake or throttle might take of exhaust manifold and check it out.......before car went into garage i had a union fitting in the hole where cps locking too lgoes with a braided hose coming out of it about 5mm wide was releasing pressure dont know how much hence widening the fitting...and also changed turbo return pipe this may have also caused this havent checked yet but the pipe goes directly downwards to union on sump baffled!!................since re-filling with 20/50 after trying 5/30 it still smoked? any ideas thanks.

HirenRS

ps got top of swirl pot has rocker and block hose leading to it BOTTOM OF SWIRL POT goes to atmosphere and another draining back to the sump at the to pof sump on the back

HirenRS

also how white is white smoke and how blue is blue smoke sounds dumb but tryin to identify cause doubt its coolant thinking maybe head crack, return pipe from turbo blocked mayb

nevsrevs

check your return pipe is clear and has a nice fall from turbo to sump, why do you have a return from catch tank? i would have breathers going into tank half way up, then vent to atmo, no return.

CrOwSoN15

If it's white white, would it not be oil seals in the turbo?

nevsrevs

just remembered our other chats about crank case breathing and me saying you must get it sorted or you will blow seals ect ect, where is your engine breathing from now?

HirenRS

Crank is breathing frm old crank pos lock drilled out with a union changed turbo now smoke is gone however under load at high revs got a puff of blue checked plugs and they are dry greyish build up on tips also i have slight build up of sticky black residue on all exhaust ports how can i rule out oil rings? drain from oil separator going to back of sump block and rocker leading to top of seperator and a 1 inch piqe leading to chasis level for vent advised by sitech also i have noticable amounts of fumes leaving oil separator at idle frm atmosphere pipe

HirenRS

took it out for a spin today and this is what i got....

blue smoke which is not very thick behind me under load

where my bailey oil seperator vents
to atmosphere there is visible fumes they are white and seem to evaoprate fairly quickly.

return pipe from turbo is now okay i changed turbo and return pipe and has cured the white blue smoke i initially had..

my engine breathes as follows :

rocker to top left of bailey pot
crank to top right of bailey pot
bottom left bailey pot returning oil to sump
bottom right venting to atmosphere fitted following guide supplied and fitting kit

the higher the revs climb the more visible the smoke becomes


No visible smoke on idle, when car is revved it throws out a puff of hazey blue smoke.

nevsrevs

zetec tend not to breath heavy, and i dont think your crank is breating enough, wat is the id of the whole your using, thought it was about 7mm, should be more like 20mm

HirenRS

10 mm union supplied with bailey kit apparently according to someone at sitech zetec turbo can bretah through 8 gallerys leading to the rocker dunnon if its true or not but yh thats what i got ....any ideas on what the stuff stuck around exhaust ports is its like a build up of blCK RESIN super sticky doubt it burns well either wasnt a great deal though may jus be where oil is being burned

nevsrevs

sound like unburnt oil, think you need to get another crank breather sorted as using that small hole is not enough,

HirenRS

thanks for the help so far btw....

rite i plan to widen this breather further either 16 or 23 mm depending on clearances and will use a union that fits this or copper pipeor something similair hopefully got a placenear me that does hydraulic fittings who have been sortin me..i spoke to a friend today who says it could be breathing heavy could i had a extra breather to rocker cover also on another post i saw a pipe which had been modded and welded ont original zetec block breather but done in a way to fit t3 u seen this done or know of anyone who made one?

also anyone using a bailey sierra cossie oil seperator/breather pot on zetec turbo?...how much fumes have you got leaving 1 inch atmo pipe?

nevsrevs

will pedley does a breather adaptor plate for the front breather, onto a jic fitting, if it was breathing heavy i would be doing a leak down test to see if your rings are letting by, i have never seen a healty zetec breathing that heavy, even after 20mins flat out round the track we get no oil in our catch tank.

HirenRS

spoke to bailey today on the fone, they advised me that my return pipe had to be below oil level otherwise the crank pressure will prevent oil dropping off instead pushing pressure back round the engine this could be my problem so i will lower the union over the weekend and give it a leak down test

HirenRS

gonna go do a compression test now and a leakby test post results as soon as

HirenRS

compression test read:

cyl1-180
cyl2-180
cyl3-180
cyl4-70

made no difference to cylinder 4 when a bit of oil was poured into cylinder then retried still read the same 70 psi makes me think it may be a valve issue or cracked piston maybe also plan to drill a 16mm holeinto frnt of block whilst everything is off and tap a 18mm thread in for a 1/2" union i have it is 16mm internal diameter

nevsrevs

bingo, check no 4 valves and ex ports for more oil than the others..

HirenRS

yh it was a result discovering this however sad it may be it is what it is.....what do ya reckon it could be i did have this black sh*t deposited on all exhaust ports is this likely to be a valve or piston issue i want to fix all possible causes i plan to change rings, valve stem seals also i will vbe re-building engine at a friends garage he is starting out with a machine shop and its currently just a workshop however he has a good few bits in there 3 angle valve seat guides etc so will hopefully be fidlding around a bit to see what we can do and also does 180 psi seem to high or is it normal on a zetec turbo?

HirenRS

also this seems to be a valve problem from the comprression test but how would a valve not seating or other valve proeblem cause my blue smoking issue...im no expert but i assume it could be a crack in the head or maybe cracked bore.. any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated thanks

HirenRS

update:

took the head off have not got any cracked pistons looking at the crowns anyway, cylinder 4 is a bit more black in colour than the others cylinder 4 was the one which compression tested at 70psi i will be removing sump and baffle in order to push pistons out

the pistons are mahle stamped but do not have valve cut outs are zetec pistons not meant to have valve cut outs?

no signs of detonation in cylinders but oily deposits on pistons i think anyway as when the head came off the cylinders were flooded by water left in the jacket they have since been dried and look pretty good no scratches and honing marks still visible, the engine has a silver decompression plate and a normal headgasket any ideas on what pistons these might be i will post pictures later....i now assume when the pistons come out i wil find a cracked ring or gland damage....

HirenRS

note to nevs revs if u look at the bottom left ofpic you can see the angled union i am using gonna ftake it out and tap a 18mm union in instead

nevsrevs

yea cem metal dont look too good mate? yea get pistons out and check rings and ring lands, looks like it might be a head fault then?

HirenRS

gonna loose the c/m and that union for a bigger one got space to tap it this time yh could be a head fault or ring gland will soon know what happend....i hope to find piston 4 damaged tbh lol

Turbo Zetec

iTrader: (1)

zetecs dont suffer with head faults often, especially not ones that would cause a ton of smoke

i'd definately take the piston out for a good look.

nevsrevs

depends who has ported them, and valve stem oil seal shit them self when done big miles

Turbo Zetec

iTrader: (1)

don't think it said anything about being ported? plus it'd be a water problem including loss of coolant if it was the head. i've never seen a dead one yet (and i see them more than most people). stem seals aren't as much of a problem on zetecs as they are on older engines, even if they were shot, it's not going to start smoking heavily all of a sudden

the big give away is the lack of compression. it can only really be one of 3 things:

- valves not seating properly. i have come across this a lot on some zetecs with LPG, but rarely petrol ones.

- Headgasket. although it looks to be alright in the picture.

-piston/rings. this is where i'd place my bet, as its only a cast one. not saying its definitely going to be this, but its where i'd go looking, even if its just pouring something like thinners down the bores to see if that cylinder drains faster than the rest.

let us know what you find, always interested in what goes wrong

HirenRS

thanks for the replys....would petrol work as a suitable thinner while the head is off i am going to replace the rings and bigend bearings anyway the head looks okay i will post pictures.....the lack of compression and blue smoke hopefully points to a easily fixed piston problem

HirenRS

picture of head before fitment

HirenRS

also will take pics of ports and post em tomo once i take manifolds off the head

Turbo Zetec

iTrader: (1)

what animal hit that with a grinder?

the compression problem could be the head after all, best to get it pressure tested whilst it's off and take a look at the valve seats. i can recommend a place in Hertfordshire if you need

HirenRS

yh let me know the name of that placre mate i know another machine shop up here aswell called powerunits they do all sorts theire 3 angle valve seats etc etc so i will run my head up there today i know one of the fellas who works sunday's doing his own stuff......and loll the head came with the engine i bought from ebay the work actually looked really good compared to the picture but yes could be this i was also having a lot of oil vapour exiting my atmo pipe on eperator according to bailey this is down to blowby past rings potentially but anyways pistons gonna com out soon will post pics as soon as thanks for the help guys......want it to be ready for ford fair lol

HirenRS

HirenRS

took the manifolds off exhaust ports look pretty dry however got some deposits there, also got a tiny bit of oil up the inlet manifold dont know why as those breathers are now blocked off may have accumalated there before,

inlet valves look very shiny bronze

got a really weird thing going on at cylinder 4 on the head 1,2,3 have the same carbon build up around the two horizontal facing sections of the combustion chamber either side of the valves no 4 is clean silver with no carbon build up on it

cyl 4 in general looks a bit more oily and nasty i will upload shots as soon as having problems with the phone at the mo

HirenRS

HirenRS

camera aint that great but whats goin on with the head? cyl 4 also got a few tiny dents on the face as u can see

Turbo Zetec

iTrader: (1)

The place is called buntingford engine services (http://www.buntingford.com/buntingford-engine-services/)

alternatively, you could send it to my work, but we're a bit further away! (http://www.cambridge-rebores.co.uk/)

looks like its full of oil to me! number 4 more than the rest though. porting looks brutal, but it would give a water problem if it had broken through anywhere. looks majorly oily around the guides, possibly a guide clearance problem as well as stem seals!

its hard to say from pictures alone. i'd love to get my hands on it to take a proper look

my advice would be to get the head checked over properly and to take the piston out of number 4 to have a look at the very minimum. its false economy not to have a proper look really.

HirenRS

will have it checked out over the week i suppose, i got a friend who is from cambridge who occasionally comes up this way ill see if theres anything i could sort out will put pics of the pistons and bores up tomo howeve bores look good honing marks still there no scoring slight lip at topof all cylinders

HirenRS

okay i took the pistonsout today 1,2,3 are fine rings intact etc piston 4 is f*ck*d alarge peice of ring gland is missing...need a replacement piston as im on a budget standard rods, arp bolts and ford big end bearing .25 oversized pics coming up soon phone playin up! dont think you seen a piston this bad yet lol

HirenRS

dropped the head of to pro-engines next to me in hatfield, me and my mate had a look at it popped out the valves on worst affected cylinder 4....btw those marks on the head are from the demolished rings owever it seems to flat to have been left and possibly has a head skim.........also hes convinced the missing sectionof ring gland has been removed and piston re-fitted, crank looks okay there are a few high spots on the bearings not much tho should be fine gonna give the crank a proper inspection tomorow and see what i got....if anything looking at the bearings ive told the crank should be okay wasnt kckig or anything before..............anyway removed all valves on chamber 4 and found the valve was not seating all the eway round on exhaust side one of them they are not damaged............

next steps are head will already be stripped and in the acid tank
3 angle valve seats
keeping the valves gonna re-con them and match to valve seats
the porting looks brutal or unfinished on the outside of ports insides around valve looking very nice i have pictures so the rest of ports will be finished
exhaust and inlet manifold adaptor plates willl be used to match the inlet and exhaust ports
valve guides looking okay
valve stem seals are f*ck*d no hold on the valves
polish the rocker cover and re-build the head
not an extensive list but will be a nice clean unit to replace with all valves working properly

the bottom end:
going to recieve new big end bearings the ones i removed were .25 oversized
new piston in cylinder 4
new rings
going to drill a 18mm hole where the crank locking bung used to be and tap in a 18x1.5 thread for my union


is my oil return from turbo going to be okay on the top of the sump? above oil level? its currently there but if people have had issues with this i will relocate it will the block is stripped as cleaning swarf and metal fillings from drilling will bve easily cleaned ryt now

Turbo Zetec

iTrader: (1)

good news that you found the problem sorting the head will make things much better, be careful with the boost when its back together though, or you could end up with another messed up piston

should completely sort your smoking problem too