t230

Heres a weird one......

When water temp sensor is connected / unconnected idle is poor (about 6-700 rpm)

When A water temp is connected but NOT SCREWED IN TO HOUSING IDLE IS PERFECT - WHY?? ARRRRRRRRRRRGH!!!!!! PLEASE HELP...

CAR SPEC AS FOLLOWS (apologies for caps)

focus T230
Zetec turbo charged, pectel ecu , cossie map sensor (new), cossie water temp sensor, cossie air temp & cossie boost control (2 port amal valve) all connected to pectel ecu...sorry im such an amateur but am trying to avoid getting ripped by mechanics any further....

cheers guys n gals any help is always appreciated....

tabetha

Either hasn't been set up right fuelling wise or the sensor is duff, I assume from that that it is a 2 wire sensor, if so it is reference(5V) and signal, it is getting a signal return purely from the ambient air temperature.
tabetha

t230

hello tabetha and cheers for the reply

its the water temp sensor WTS09 which is discontinued so went for the appropriate OE one..

Whats happening is no matter what sensor is screwed in to thermostat housing it idles poorly when connected correctly but when you disconnect that sensor and connect one that JUST HANGS in the engine bay ..so as in open air...it idles like a dream..

After putting the car back together it was mint untill 10 mins down the road. then all this

Ok after doing a dash test im getting a P117 error code which means temp sensor voltage is low. DOes this mean the ECU is sending a low signal? but then that contradicts what is happening when i leave a sensor (whether its duff or not i have three new ones here AND ONE DUFF ONE) connected but not in thermostat housing....

tabetha

The easiest thing to do would be to measure the reference voltage at the cts plug, as if low it will cause problems.
The next thing would be to use a 1 watt metal film resistor across the two terminals to "fool" the ecu into thinking a normal temp was being read, but you will need to look up the resistance versus temp of the sensor/engine.
I think it more likely that something else has changed, that affects the fuelling, so certainly don't discount anything, maybe something easy like a pipe come off somewhere.
Is the map correct or a base map ?, what loom are you using ?
tabetha

t230

SOrry for late reply...

Its a pectel ecu t2 with a mountune map. The loom is escort cosworth - Boost amal valve , Water temp Sensor , Map Sensor ( another one hard to find aps 02/03), I think im may have to send off my ecu somewhere to be checked out because i was having problems with the the amal valve aswell.

The car was running fine untill i booted up the road. obviously after a good idle and warm up drive, but after full throttle the bad idle problem cam back. Initially i though it was the manifold because after 1st inspection it had warped. Got a new one , put her all back together now all this.

After speaking to few other people it has become apparent that the temp sensor MUST be exactley the same. So the fact that ive been using copy parts leads me to believe these re prob not transmitting required signal.

Original on order....ill let you know what happens.
Seems my idle control valve has also been modified and doesent have original zetec bracket. Just wanted to give it a clean - was surging - icv symptoms right?

Ford cannot locate the following part number y4se - 68876 - aa . This is in place of theoriginal idle control valve bracket. Its like a continuation of the metal straight on the intake valve. Basically i have undone it at the wrong point destroyed a gasket and can only seem to get this diamond shaped green gasket with a motor factor ICV , and as we know they are 80% duff parts, wheras fords supply one with the 'sunglasses' rubber type thingy..this green gasket has become the needle in the haystack.

phew...didn trealise i typed so much...

t230

its just a can of worms mate..

tabetha

As it's aftermarket ecu, it will work with pretty much any temp sensor that you put in, but obviously has to be replaced with same if it goes duff.
I'd be tempted to get it on the rollers, maybe it was never right to start with ?, just because it drove ok, or seemed to doesn't mean it was.
tabetha

t230

Believe me it ran the best it ever has in the 7 years i had it. I finally got all horses going through the wheels, spinning up to 3rd, even flames when changi ng gear. Ik now this because my neighbour told me when hes saw me, and yeah i was well chuffed.

When i turn the key and the car idles absolute 950 rpm i know its 100%. I know its there.ive got to got over evverything its somthing so simple.

Heh if i cant get her started by actually locating proper parts genuine rather than motor factor then im off to harvey gibbs or ian howell.

At the moment ive got a proper WTS09 (found on on ebay which was listed as a DUCATI ST4 WATER TEMP SENSOR, imagine that?) ordered from fords so i see how that goes. i also suspect that the map sensor is duff, which i paid 45 for at motor factors what a waste, so ive got an original on the way see how that goes aswell.

Thanks again for your input

pdfbt40

The T230 was a Ford approved (and marketed) version of the MK1 Focus produced by Gordon Spooner. The engine modifications (inc the T2 and its mapping) were done by Mountune.

Similar to most turbo modifications, except it still used the standard MAF (on the HP side of the intercooler) for a load parameter to the T2, rather than adding a MAP sensor, so it sounds as if some modification has been done (but see below).

As to idle, it still used the standard manifold, so a standard gasket should be right, though an earlier composite gasket could be used, or even silicon.

On a conversion nowadays, most people still use the Ford PCM to control the ICV, it retains the auxillaries load adjustment. Don't know if Mountune did that or used the T2.

Incidently, the T230 T2 is locked. Even if you have the Pectel software, it can't be read or adjusted. Mountune did use standard Cosworth CWT.

Martin

t230

Hello again people

Firstly thank you for your replies, always appreciated. Ok so the head came of and low and behold the head gasket had gone!

So with some expert help we changed that, great improvement. Notice a few other things and have changed those aswell so im nearly there. Got in touch with paul hills who is gonna unlock the ecu for me...(im wiping the slate clean making a fresh start) as he is the only person who can unlock it for me without completely wiping the ecu.

Still getting an idle problem so am gonna change the last 3 sensors left that havent been changed which are the air temp, idle valve and mass air flow. need $$$ er sorry ŁŁŁ

It also has become apparent that these motor factor parts are quite decent and they do work

It seems the t230 is so delicate cause the slightest leak or error causes the car to run poorly.

Again i want to thank you both pdfbt40 & tabetha for your input.

Camel Fiddler

Sorry this is an old thread but I have a T190 and having a few issues too. It has poor idle, and stalls alot. I also have a boost issue and wondering where I should start looking? I have a new maf to go on but the Amal is shot and car running direct ATM. Other sensors are 2 bar map as on T230 and ACT sensor. Strangely though, I'm running a decat and no EML. Unplugging sensors including lambda don't even bring EML on.

pdfbt40

I'm not sure, but does the T190 use a separate ECU to the Ford PCM like the T230 ?
That used a Pectel T2 ECU to control the engine management. The Ford PCM was retained though to control the security and ancillaries like fans, petrol pump, alternator, a/c, etc.
Therefore, as the EML, controlled by the PCM would be permanently on......if the bulb in the instrument cluster wasn't removed !! So not surprising it never comes on for any engine fault.

On bad idling the first things to check are the same as a N/A engine. All the PCV & vacuum hosing, then ICV. Boost (unless vacuum leak) has little/no bearing, same as MAF and/or MAP, not relevant to the idle management system.

Martin

Camel Fiddler

The bulb for EML is fine as it shows when the ignition is turned on, then goes off.

I'm taking my issues as 2 separate ones tbh. An idle problem and boost problem. The idle seems much better when the vacuum line for the dump valve is removed but not plugged. Plug it in and idle drops to 700ish rpm and car struggles. I have a replacement clean ICV to fit and will clean tps too and see what happens.
As far as the boost issue goes- I believe it is hitting the fuel cut and am wondering if the vac line between the compressor and actuator may be split somewhere, or maybe a problem with the actuator itself. My car runs a Lektron valve from escos, which itself is not working (no click when ignition comes on-need to test wiring and find replacement to test) and damaged. Input hose from compressor actuator is plugged for now til sorted.

Any advice or tips on anything like how-to for cleaning tps, removing ICV, checking actuator, Lektron, hosing etc from anyone?


Cheers

pdfbt40

As its a Ford approved supply, it could be that the EML is disabled for all the engine management functions handled by the Pectel T2 supplied by Mountune. Most individuals fitting a separate ECU usually remove the bulb. The ignition on is only a bulb check driven by the cluster microprocessor, not a PCM check.

I was also treating the other issues as separate, as I said. You hadn't given any information on the boost problem anyway.

Stabilising the idle by giving an air leak (disconnecting an impulse line), is, as I suggested, more an indication of a PCV issue. Increased blowby on a turbo engine does reduce the life of the PCV valve. You've not mentioned checking it or its piping for condition.
You can't 'clean' the TPS. In any case, the PCM only has to have a reading below 20% if its controlling the ICV (rather than the ECU).

Your describing what you think are possible caused of your boost problem, but not actually what the symptoms are. Why do you think its hitting 'the fuel cut' ? What do you think the fuel cut is on the T2 ?
I check functionality of an actuator by simply pressurising it to a bar or so and seeing that it moves.
The boost valve is simply checked by making sure flow is correctly directed through the 3 ports with and without 12v.

pa_sjo

You may want to get in touch with Ahmed Bayjoo as he is familiar with these cars and has full access to the ECU's..

Camel Fiddler

My car uses a catch tank for the breathers and had a one way valve from the crankcase breather to the back of the inlet manifold (before catch tank). The valve is still in place now to prevent any possible blow back along this line.

I'm going to change the ICV either today or tomorrow and replace the hosing from compressor to actuator and lektron valve to make sure there are no hidden splits and after checking the old valve with 12v directly from battery, there was no life there but the attachment plug has 1 or 2volts to it when the ignition is on.

The boost issues are in 3rd,4th and 5th gear, about 3000rpm to 4500rpm. If I accelerate harder than about 10% throttle, the car will stutter and shake losing almost all acceleration. Upto this band and after this band it is fine and pulls well. It often makes like a machine gun popping noise and won't accelerate at all instead. It never has a problem in 1st and very occasionally in 2nd does the popping but very rarely.

t230

Oksay so after finding the problem i thought i d sharwwhat was racking my brain for so long! In the end it was a cracked piston crown....



Can u see where the metal is missing, i mean, WTF could cause that?

Anywayz no more smoking BUT im sure a couple of u cossie owners saw me smoking again on the Dartford crossing about a month ago ( could see the drivers laughing lol) after a new engine install (o miles) and properly running it in it smoked ever so lightly in 3rd gear on the overun but hasnt since so we will see how that goes.

Once again thanks for all input people!

Ill keep you posted or u can watch here

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/GMD...88363341184171

tonytantrum

jesus christ ive never seen a piston like that before!

do they use low comp pistons on the t230?

t230

Nope everything standard apart from turbo, ecu, injectors, map sensor, air temp sensor, water temp sensor and breather system. the sensors are cossie ones , oh yeah theres an escort cossie/ fiesta turbo boost control solenoid.

Guess what it was my shoddy ecu to coil loom repair which was causing a misfire.....poor signal i guess. But sorted now...just need to investigate very high idle at startup like 2500 rpm!!!! any ideas ???

Camel Fiddler

Could be air leak from rear of inlet manifold or maybe coolant temp sensor fault

Camel Fiddler

How did you determine this mate as I have an intermittent misfire and the 3 wires going into the coilpack were cut and taped together. I have a circuit checker for voltage, resistance etc so can check that.

t230

ha ha - after searching google for a problem with my engine i found my own thread lmafo - ok so might aswell update y'all. Back up to full running power with the t230. Considering its age (well everything is effing new) it goes effin well for a 230 bhp focus

Anywho - im well chuffed that ive got her running again. You know can get up in morning start her , nice idle 950 rpm etc etc , it feel effing ace. And the best thing is i did it 90 percent myself. Yep thats the best feeling - all that time and effort and it bloody runs!

10 percent was due to the fact im still bit wuss about doing timing and dont have tools to do clutch bymyself however the hardest part was refittig fuel tank whilst holding the fuel tank with one hand and lining up the canister withthe other and making it all line up . Dont know if it had been easy for some of you but it was snowing, car was jacked up on a slight hill i was bymyself it was dark and i was on my back : (was so lonely)

Well its all good now APART from the fact the car will not run with a cam sensor plugged in. I have tried my old one, a new one and one that came with the crate engine....

I also have a flutter whilst crusing ie if im in 5th gear doing 50mph , i may decrease my speed slight overrun, its when i accelerate again slightly the car judders violently untill i increase throttle. - ANY IDEAS???

Thanks for all your previous input people - i am now going to read the threadto see if there have been any updates since i last posted. TTFN

t230

Camelfiddler - i had a fire in my engine bay around 40000 miles racing a motorbike looool long story - was trying to seal a leak in down pipe with some crap sealant (didnt know what i wasdoing then, obviously!) and the heat just made it burst out in flames - worst of all i pulled into a petrol station who called fire brigade who effin threw sand in my engine JUST IN CASE

so the wires melted and ive pissing around with them since - they need to be soldered with - oh wait you sold the car lol just remembered