Anonymous

Need some details on throttle bodies for a highpower cossie YB engine. I know of a 2wd throttle body on custom inlet manifold having produced 503bhp, can this be improved upon with the help amongst other things a different throttle boy, how much bigger/ better is a RS500 item or can anybody else recommend another? Rover, Jag, BMW, custom?

PJay

A 2wd throttle body can flow enough air mass for 600 bhp+ it's the plenum elbow that causes a restriction, the 2wd throttle is actually better then the rs500 as it retains better driveability.

HTH

PJay

Gav Diamond

iTrader: (6)

Also if you are running a custom inlet you will need the 2wd one for the idle control valve

Danny B

Gav I dont run an idle control valve on my own custom inlet thats with a 3" throttle body but a 2.5" is good enough for 600+hp and this what my new design inlet will be running

Anonymous

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/...le_bodies.html

Danny B

Can do very competitive prices on all Edelbrock parts week ship every 2-3wks so call the Hauser number in my sig

WingDude good to see me europeans on Passion Ford Welcome.

Gav Diamond

iTrader: (6)

Danny does your car idle when cold? or do you have to keep revving it up?

Danny B

nah mate its fine when cold, I was usingit everyday until it broke last week!! even the very period its was still fine on idle. they just need to be mapped right

foreigneRS

yeah, you don't need an idle control valve if the ignition is mapped right to give an agressive advance at very low engine speed so that as the revs drop to 400rpm or whatever, the ignition advances a lot which pushes the speed back up.

idle valves should give a steadier idle and be able to better take account of cold starting and variable electrical and power steering loads and the like, but not necessary for a racer.

Anonymous

Thanks all excellent, I will return to this subject no doubt.

Anonymous

I'll be taking my car on the rollers in a couple of weeks with for a before and after session with my new plenum: http://www.g2.nu/chris/westie/pictures/20040213/

It's set up to allow you to swap over from standard as easily as possible so has bosses for 2WD/4WD/escort/sierra fuel rails and takes the standard TB.

You'll note that the design is tapered and has an extention at the far end to ensure that it gets optimum balance between cylinders. The other thing that this design does is allow you to flip the plenum round so that you can mount the TB at the rear, which is something that people want to do in a number of installs where space is limited. It has also been designed for 8 injector setups, you just need to add a fuel rail and injectors.

If all proceeds to plan then I'm hoping to do a small production run of them so if you're interested let me know and I'll keep you posted on developments.

Anonymous

The thing that I failed to make obvious is perhaps the most important reason for wanting a plenum like this - you get to ditch the horrid elbow! Custom TB mounts are not a problem either, we just make the holes bigger

The other thing I've designed in is to make the other endplate extra thick, just like the TB one. This means that if you so choose you could mount your vacuum takeoffs and sensors there so that the front plate is nice and clear if you're putting the extra injectors there. You could also use the spare bosses that are already there to mount the second fuel rail.

Danny B

get off my turff!!! I do the custom thngs around here!!! lol

look ok mate

PJay

Don't like the look of that plenum, danny you got any pics of your new one?

Danny B

not yet PJay, I'm doing 10 at the moment although 7 are sold already also will hopefully get good feed back from a couple of the peeps running them as they will more than likely go on the dyno so I can keep improving each batch, will post pics before I send them out next week.

Anonymous

Pics of your version please Danny B Not seen your saff engine bay up close recently, cheeRS

Danny B

you dont wanna, it looks a mess a fire didn't help but its nearly clean and sorted then pics will be out!

PJay

Danny, if your doing 10 and 7 are sold then where are the other 3?

Danny B

they will be for sale price is not finallized yet though

PJay

Let me know, funds permitting i'll have one

Anonymous

P Jay, very intersted in any feedback. I've spent some time ensuring that it will flow right, which is why there's the extension beyond the tail end of the plenum so that there's not a high pressure spot over the end cylinder and that's why the taper is there, to equalise the pressures. Get the design wrong and the engine will only ever run as well as the cylinder that's filled worst. Even worse is if one of the cylinders is rich and the lambda probe is seeing that and as a result the ecu runs lean and you get detonation. What exactly keen on? Do bear in mind that the pictures there are of the first engineering prototype so it's functional and flexible rather than pretty. Once it's proven on the dyno we'll finalise the designs, we've already learnt a lot from making that one.

I don't want to tread on any toes, I primarily designed this one for me and one other guy who both have real space constraints, I've got my setup in a westfield while my mate has his in an even smaller engine bay! That the plenum should give more power and make it dead easy to go 8 injector is just a convenient side effect If others are interested then I'm happy to get some more made up, if not then it's no great shakes. If I could have bought mine off the shelf I would have but the only things out there were the best part of a grand and weren't as good for my application as they could be, I was hoping to be able to supply to others for half the price. It sounds like Danny has the bases covered though.

PJay

I can't see how the tail will help reduce the pressure over no 4 TBH also the actual looks arn't exactly great, does your plenum do anything to combat the fact that no 3 always runs lean, is a box type design the best for flow or would a rounded plenum flow better leaving less possibility of hi/lo pressure areas withing the plenum? At the end of the day i wan't a plenum that is the best for MY engine, danny has proven already that he's capable of designing/building a plenum that works and is noe already updating it, also mike r sells swedish plenums for Ł300 so where the Ł1k figure came from i don't know.

The lambda probe will NEVER see the effects of one cylinder running rich as it reads the exhaust gasses which are a combination of all 4 cylinders in the case of the YB and cylinder 3 is prone to running lean but a lambda sensor will never warn you of this.

Not having a dig just trying to throw some ideas your way

Keep me updated on the development though

PJay

Danny B

PJay I'll let you know next week

Danny B

cnq1 I think you'll have problems with yours if you run more than stage 1 boost (15psi) you'll find that it will bend that stainless steel, would advise a double return lip on it if you decide to stay with that material thinkness my current one that i've run for 7months on the car has been peaking at 25psi and survived a big ?NOS blow back but learning from this an seeing how the shape changed slightly(ballooning) I've decided to alter the materials used and now they should be good for 35+psi boost and nos.

PJay

Should be good for my needs have you got any idea on price matey? PM me if you prefer, if not no biggy

BigBoost

fook off pjay u cant av one of dannys inlets

PJay

Why not , need some incentive to make me put the car back together

Danny B

Stop fighting you to, there's enough for everyone!! well could be

Anonymous

P Jay, as I'm sure you can imagine the air rushes in at the front and then piles up at the back end. By adding a tail you shift that high pressure area from where it would naturally sit which is right over No 4.

As far as plenum design goes what you want to do is try to give enough volume and make sure there are no strange resonants, a plenum volume of 10* engine capacity is the optimum but you get 95% of the benefits of the large plenum with just 3* engine capacity. Guess what volume I've been aiming for The other thing that you want to do is to make sure that you're not getting the wierd resonants where the proximity of the plenum gives the trumpets problems. The ford plenum is incredibly close, just 13mm from the trumpets which is a nightmare, by moving the plenum further away you remove all the nasty resonants. Once you've got an even flow and as close to optimum volume as possible anything goes, going round/square/oval makes sod all difference.

I think we're both making the same point as far as the lambda probe goes, it's reading an aggregate so if the cylinders aren't all filling the same then you're losing power or you're risking detonation or both. Either way it's essential to keep the cylinder filling even.

When I was looking around I kept coming up CNC billets for 1500 or thereabouts, 8-injector setups about 1000 or 750 if it was just a standard plenum with a plate welded on. Of course none of these solved my problem, which was sod all space around the TB, you can see what I mean here:
http://www.g2.nu/chris/westie/pictur...d/img_1908.jpg
http://www.g2.nu/chris/westie/pictur...d/img_1645.jpg

Yep, that's 3mm clearance, the vibratechnics engine mounts are stiff enough thankfully that the whole thing stays put but you can see why I need to move the TB now

Looks-wise I don't give a damn right now, once it's been on the RR and proved that everything is ok then we'll do the pretty one. Right now that's just a prototype to get some numbers, make sure everything fits and works exactly how it's supposed to. Have you got some pictures of the sort of finish that you'd expect?

This is the level of finish that we'll be aiming for:
http://www.g2.nu/chris/westie/pictur...d/img_1869.jpg
http://www.g2.nu/chris/westie/pictur...d/img_1871.jpg

Anonymous

Danny, I'm interetedDanny, I'm interested that you think it will bend stainless. My chargecooler is made from susbstantially thinner ali and has been just fine at 25psi. The top section has a double thickness section, the endplates are thicker to but for the most part it's 2/3mm thick. I've run the model and the simulation says that there's a big enough safety margin that I'd be expecting something else to break f
irst. Out of interest what were you fabbing yours at, I'd be facinated to see some pictures.

BigBoost

all dannys stuff is top secret ok pjay u can have one just let me get mine first

Danny B

I dont wish to get involved with an online debate and whats best and whats not, I was advising you thats all, if you happy with your design then good luck I've had mine for 12months now and its done 7months on the car and it has proved its self ans its still making good power with low boost, however in the future there will be DYNO results and hopefully flow charts to show its performance, not to mention proven times from my own car

PJay

OK matey, you can have yours first, im in no rush, my target completion date is january NEXT year

BigBoost

only messin pjay ,good luck with yer motor

Anonymous

hi chris (cng1) see you got on this site at last

danny, sorry cant be arsed to read all of the above whats your manufactured from? and how does it compare to the ones that mike is seling?

any idea on price mate??????

just want to know as i wouldnt mind changing mine so i have a little more room cause i have the same problem as chris
also does yours use all the other standard bits ie, tb and inlet manifold?

cheers

Danny B

Darren mine is very much like the ones Mike R sells, Never actually seen one of his but I believe they are very good, dont know how they compare to mine and not to bothered as i'm hapy with my results to date, I can do them for a standard TB or a BMW 3" TB, I have will have two available in the next couple of weeks as i've done 10(7 possibly 8 taken for) for people that have kept on at me and wanting them Yes they use the standard inlet runners but I advise porting work to be done to open them up a little.

Anonymous

ok thanks mate

mikes can be seen here btw, https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23083

do you have a rough price guide on yours yet mate???????

Danny B

Will have an exact price next week mate

Anonymous

FIRE Danny? What caused that?!? You didnt let that chubby geezer from Jamsport near it did you, he he, kidding. Will take a look when it cleaned and on show at Pod then maybe? CheeRS for the info all, and stop bitchin PJAY et al, play nicely.

Danny B

Fire was causes by a shite turbo company lack of quality, the insert in the turbo that the filter clamps to came out(how!!!! Who knows!!) the filter then fell down and against the turbo/exhaust manifold ans caught fire, this was happening while I was going for it around Bruntingthorpe until I see the flames out the bonnet vent!!