Right has anyone got any ideas why a 1.6 mk4 efi escort, which is the same as any other efi cvh wont spark?! ive tried a few ecus, chances the CPS sensor and tried different edis modules, the coil pack i tried on a fez turbo engine and it works fine so its not that gone down. Ive tried to check and trace most wires earths etc and all seem to be ok. The fuel pump primes ok etc, and the coil pack is getting a 12v supply from the edis module. The plugs and leads seem fine they havnt really seem much use.

At a loss now as to what it can be and gonna have to resort to an auto electrician if i dont sort it soon.

Cheers for any help!

 

Crank sensor?

 

although the pump primes there is a cut off switch in spare wheel well check this as it happened to me but i no nothin

 

It's really quite a simple system to debug. The CPS connected to a EDIS with power and earth connected to the coil pack with power should produce spark when the engine is rotated. Ecu is only used to change spark timing, it can't make the spark not occur. First thing would be to check continuity on wires, CPS conector (they do suffer from heat) and +12V present even during cranking. Is it an original loom, or a DIY?

 

its a mfi escort but i fitted a genuine efi escort cab loom and an xr2i engine and sensors etc. I found loads of wiring faults i.ve fixed now hence at a loss!

 

oh and cps is the crank sensor! And its not the cut out switch as i havn't bothered fittin one as its an mfi cab!

 

Nasty - I fitted one when I EFi'd my Mk3 cabby, - I didn't fancy the thought of going up in a fireball!

Your problem seems likely to be the crank position sensor, - you should be able to test this with a multimeter. It should produce a small voltage when the engine is cranked.

 

Well its easy enought for me to wire one in once the things working

The coil pack is getting 12V to the black wire going to it, but will check the CPS wire for voltage etc, cheers

 

i have a full car harness/ecu from an EFi `3i 3dr if your interested in buying?
removed everything inc inlet manifold and heater cowels that hold map sensor

say Ł40 and (minus inlet) whatever the postage is ontop?
it was removed for a zetec turbo conversion but we used emerald so not needed.

regards Sean
07876 481 735

 

Is it and edis getting the 12V while CRANKING?

 

Did you connect ALL the earths up @ the battery? There should be an extra earth connection on the EFI loom compared to the MFi one.

I had the same issue when I changed a battery on my EFI MK4. Would crank but not fire, went back to the battery, had a look around and saw the earth wire laying down behind the battery itself. Connected it up and it fired first time

 

Jesse will double check when i get back on sunday cheers mate!!

ian think i know the one u mean it runs about 3 earths off the ecu and if its the one i think ur on about its connected up!! wasnt to start with took a while to realise as i found someone had cut it off the loom

 

Why not test the if the CPS is even producing a signal? Easy to do with a multimeter set to AC volts.

 

Cheers for that will do that when i get in, been suggested that the efi xr2is and xr3is have different CPS's, anyone know if thats the case?! May have to track down an escort CPS from somewhere to check.

How do u check if its giving a signal properly?!

 

Whoever told you that has no clue what they are talking about unfortunately.

They are all the same

If you want to check it, you need your multimeter set to AC volts, you need to probe both connections on the sensor and get a glamorous assistant to crank the engine over, you should see a small AC voltage reading on your meter.

 

I have the same prob on a Fiesta RST, is this the two wires going to the crankshaft sensor??

 

yes

 

i thought the pulses would have been too fast to see without an oscilliscope and also it would be 12VDC??

 

Pulses and DC don't really go well in the same sentence

When the CPS connector is pointing forward, the upper pin is marked with + and the lower with -. The polarity is decides so based on teh sensor giving a positive voltage when iron is approaching the sensor tip and vise versa. With nothing moving, it's always going to show zero. Checking AC voltage while cranking is naturally always going to show "positive" and will not tell reverse connection.
Always check sensors from the other end of the loom, the EDIS connector in this case, to spot any faults in the connectors or wiring at the same time.

 

Only just got back on the PC, cheers for that mate will have a go and see what happens, i know the voltage at the coil pack was droping to 10v at cranking so that wont help so will have to do it when its being started off another car so it gets a good 12-13v off the other cars alternator.

Glad to know their all the same thou! althou i did get a sensor off of a mk5 CVH efi escort and noticed the other day when i checked it was about 1cm shorter!! so may need to get/borrow one off of a fiesta or something and try that aswelL!

 

The mk5 CVH one should be the same aswell, you aure its not off a zetec as i know they are definitely shorter.

And if you're using the CPS thats a cm shorter that will be your problem.

 

Well the one i was using in the first place was a proper fiesta one and it doesnt work with that either!! but will check the AC volts when i get a sec like u said and hopefully it wont give me any current then i'll know its something to do with that or the wireing to it, and the only car i can remember taking the other CPS off was a mk5 efi car but was ages ago now so who knows

 

[QUOTE=JesseT;3500525]Pulses and DC don't really go well in the same sentence [QUOTE]


The DC is modulated pulses to form a square DC wave in the form of AC wave pattern. The VR sensor switches on and off as the dimples on the "trigger wheel" pass due to its proximity sensing. Thus telling the EDIS unit to fire 90degrees BTDC (before top dead centre) So the EDIS unit fire can the correct coil for that spark plug. Its an independant system, the EEC4 unit then gets the signal to address TDC for each port bringing the spark in @ TDC.

Im sure you will agree

 

I don't really agree with any of the sentences.

 

Perhaps you should read up on it then

http://www.dainst.com/info/edis/edis.html

OR

http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/upgr...l_overview.htm

CheeRS!

 

Yes, it's all correctly explained there, so better read it straight from there.

About the DC/AC/modulation/bias/waveform thing, I'm not even going to start.
It's the Hall-effect sensor that is switch-like in operation whereas the variable Reluctor (VR) sensor, as used together with EDIS, gives out a voltage that is proportional to the rate of change of magnetic flux density at the sensor tip. Yes, the sensor has an inbuilt permanent magnet and therefore reacts to the presence of iron. The crank sensor tip can collect iron debris and lead to malfunction. The EDIS is not firing at 90 BTDC but it's triggering with the missing tooth at that position. The unit will "fire" the coil at an angle specified by the ECU with SAW signal pulse width, usually within 45-10 BTDC, rarely at TDC. In the absence of a valid SAW signal the unit will default to 10degrees BTDC that will get the car home with limited power and terrible mileage.

Toe Knee, if you're not sure whether you have the correct sensor/holder combination, you better measure the air gap between the sensor tip and the flywheel teeth. It should not be more than 2-3 mm to give adequately high signal amplitude for EDIS. If it all works, you should see the revs rise in the tacho while you crank. The 10V while cranking is somewhat normal and the ECU/EDIS should work fine with much lower voltages than that.

 

I did, thats why i have the knowledge and apply it to faults

I am an Electronic Electro-Mechanical Engineer so this is nothing compared to what i work with. Hence the story on the pulsed DC.

CheeRS!

 

Jesse we should bow in amazement really shouldn't we lol

 

It's just turning into one of the topics where the topic starter is scared away a long time ago so I'll better bugger off...

 

Sorry i've not run away just have little time to get online at the mo

Well the sensor in there now is the one that was on it when it was running in the fiesta and gonna get another one from a scrappy at some point to see if it makes any difference, althou obviously d
oing the AC check is first point if call!!

All very useful stuff cheers lads, still havnt had time to look unfortnatly as im workin all the time peachy dont suppose u live down south do u?!

If i cant sort it will have to call an auto elec just dont wanna waste money calling one out for them to go thru everything i have to come for hours to not fix it as moneys tight at the mo

 

Im iin central Scotland mate

I found the EDIS unit to be faulty on the latest system and used one from a MK5 (1.4inj i think) so dont be scared into thinking it needs to be mk4. Also, try the mk5/6 cvh ones as they have the same set up. My local car factors stocked the Crank sensor at Ł15 so you should find a new one easy enough. The edis unit we got free from the breakers yard as he didnt know what it was and how important it is for the car.

Good luck!

 

Cheers mate, ive got 2 mk5 edis units aswell as the mk3 fez one but no joy! will get round to sorting it at some point before xmas

 

Right had time to have a look at it, ive got a few crank sensors now thinkin they were the same but didnt notice at the time their different to the original one! mine has the stamp 88W on it is also longer and where it mounts is bigger on the block. I assumed they were all the same but all the ones i got from scrappys are shorter and have 89W on (will try to upload pics if confused). ive checked the ohms of each and they all give simialar readings but original one doesnt give any readings when in the block and engine cranked, i set the multimeter to A~ and checked it from the edis module end of the wire but no joy, i even ground the mount off one of the shorter ones so it went in further but still no joy. The annoying thing is the gf got one from a ford breakers and was told it was off a 2i so deff the right one but its another short one did the crank sensor mounts differ with the cvhs then?! where it mounts on mine its a big old holder but on other CVHs ive seen seem to be smaller where it mounts.

As the coil pack is getting a live feed fine next question is where is the pick up for the sensor, on back of the flywheel?! prob a silly question but ive never had an efi one off, and can it be moved damaged etc for the sensor to not be able to get a signal off it?! and can it be checked without taking the box/flywheel off?!

Seems to be pointing at long last and after fixing loads of other bits to be down to not getting a CPS signal!!

Cheers for all the help so far boys

 

Just a quick update it finally runs

New crank sensor later and it didnt run!! turns out the edis module had packed up too lol, so swapped it over and she runs fine now!! just gotta sort out the rest of the wiring and put all the interior back in now to get it mot'd

 

just seen this thread glad you got it sorted pal ive got all this to come at the week end<<<<<<<<real tears