nikh667

I have a 1990 4x4 Saph, with about 110k on the clock - has the typical noisy tappets from cold, which are, as expected, gredually getting worse and tapping consistently when warm also.

My question, however, is it realistic to attempt the cleaning procedure I have read about on the tappets, soaking them in degreaser and working them free again? Last thing I want to do is strip the cams out, do this, then bang head if still the same. Just wondered how many peeps have used this technique successfully? Any doubts and i'll bang a new set in.

Cheers, Nick!

frog

Worked for me - used turps for degreaser and cleaned them twice before putting them back in.

turbotim

Done it myself- only took couple of hours & been quiet ever since!

nikh667

Have access to a good engine degreaser at work so may well be ideal. I think the only other concern I had was whether, at 110k, they were going to be worn out, as opposed to just clogged up with deposits.

frog

My engine's 110K too if that's any consolation.

Note: It's not just a case of dipping them in degreaser. I don't believe this will work as the degreaser will not find its way into the lifters on its own, you have to pump the lifter in/out while in degreaser to clear the gunk out of them.

nikh667

Ideal - cheers for the advice.

velocity

as frog said above but when you have all the cleaning agent out its a big help to reprime them with clean oil.
the best way is to completely submerge the lifter in a small container of clean oil, make sure the supply hole on the lifter is looking up at the surface of the oil ,now the tricky part try grab hold of the lifter center pumping piece while keeping a good grip on the lifter itself,now pump it in and out slowly,preferably waiting about 2 seconds each time before pumping out.keep doing this until all the air bubbles have stopped. you know have a fully primed lifter.
if you have no problems with cam and dizzy timming you could try turning the dizy pully before you put the belt on,and it will pump oil up around the head and the camshafts and preprime everything before starting.

frog

velocity,

Nick, look here for more info: https://passionford.com/forum/viewto...935&highlight=

and

http://www.rsownersclub.co.uk/rsocbb...threadid=62352

nikh667

Many thanks to all - top advice from everyone.

Yes, Velocity, have no probs resetting the cam timing - will get everything primed as best as possible before restarting. Got breather outlet to fit to rocker cover also so going to tackle all in one go - will let you know how it goes!

richm

don't forget if you take the followers out and refit them DONT MIX THEM UP! make sure they go back in the same position as they came out.

frog

And don't use a magnet to take them out - use a sucker like a valve grinding tool.

blaazer2

there is a special tool for cleaning lifters ,it pumps the center out and gives you good cleaning access to the inner lifter ,i have one of these tools ,if you have ever had a lifter to bits i think youd be suprised at the amount of grey gunge that accumalates inside them

frog

Blaazer2, where d'you get the tool from ?

blaazer2

i got mine from a garage clearance for 40 quid, but if you have access to a compressor ,blow down the oil feed on the hydraulic lifter and the middle will pop out just the same,[warning you may get covered in oil so hold the lifter in a rag when you do it]

Dave Henshall

me

rsnissan

iTrader: (9)

Having spoken to Frog at the Middx meet i think i will give this ago over xmas

frog

rsnissan - with a bit of luck, you might be able to hear how quiet she is at the next meet too

nikh667

Excellent, excellent - all going well everyone with the cleanout of the lifters - work in a garage anyway so yes, managed to get the centres out of each tappet, good clean in the safetykleen and back together now, primed with nice clean fresh oil. Bang head here though , as rebuild has found 2 cam cam studs pulling out of head - got to deal with that tomorrow.

Nick.

nikh667

Sorry, meant cam CAP studs!...

frog

Quite common this I believe, there was a post from Jano Oddkit on this, apparently there are some zetec studs that can be used as a straight swap and they are designed not to pull out.

May be worth a quick search - or a PM to Jano.

Good luck - glad the cleaning is working out for you.

Dave Henshall

i found exactly the same - neded up heli coiling every stud hole on the exhuast side- must be the heat the weakens the ally on that side - a heli coil kit with the correct size drill bit is around 35 quid. i did it in situ with somene with a hoover sucking all the time i was drilling/tapping. job's a good un now

nikh667

Yes these are all on the exhaust side too - inlets are fine, and 2 has now become 5, may as well do the lot while its all out.

Am fitting a new oil separator at the same time, don't know if you guys can help out on this too - see https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=80917

Cheers!

frog

Found that post I was referring to earlier, look here for inspiration:

https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=67646

https://passionford.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79860

Good luck

nikh667

Looking good now guys, have obtained some CVH rocker post bolts as per instruction from Jano, which fit into my head after tapping out to M10 size. Should get it all up and running again tomorrow.

nikh667

Hurrah! All up and running now, and very quiet at that - like a swiss watch! Ended up drilling and tapping ALL 16 cam cap studs in situ (bunged kitchen roll over top of each valve, to prevent swarf getting below this, then masked over oil feeds and covered area with rag to keep as clean as possible). All very possible but requires extreme patience and cleanliness! Cleaning of tappets well worthwhile in the end, as now ticks over quietly and drives A1. Also fitted breather system at the same time so all in all a total success. Never lose faith, my cosworth compadres.........

Versus_Creations

iTrader: (1)

The studs are on the way

Good luck

frog

nikh667

Well here we are again with more updates on these lifters of mine! The story goes... ....noise started to return after a few days, straight back to how it was originally. Managed to source some new INA lifters for a good price so fitted them yesterday - feeling confident they'd cure once and for all, as even visually they wear much better quality than the one's removed. BUT NO! Still the same, have made sure the lifters have primed up - which they have no probs.

SO, any further advice? Basically, upon startup, the lifter rattle for a few seconds, then become quiet, at which point a second, more cam related tapping starts, which seems to be more apparent when revs die down from 1500rpm to 1000rpm (no load).

I'm beggining to think if the oil pressure isn't getting up into the top end properly, although plenty of oil around cams/lifters when removed and no signs of oil starvation. Anyone ever come across this before?

It's driving me nuts now but determined not to give up without a fight!

Azrael

I've read about 4x4 turbo oil feed lowering oil pressure in the engine head. 2WD oil feed from the block is said to be better.

nikh667

Interesting. Anyone else agree with this? Maybe it's worth sourcing a 2wd feed pipe and adaptor for the block then? Anybody got them handy!?

nikh667

Think I can source a feed pipe, there's plenty on eBay, anyone with access to a block adaptor though.... May not be a cure but certainly worth a try methinks.

AJ Escos

whats the reason for this (just curious)

nikh667

Can magnetise the top of the lifters, which can cause any minute metal particles in the oil to attach to the top of the lifter and cause premature wear/damage to cam lobe and lifter.

AJ Escos

learn something every day

Daveyraveygravy

Got mine all sorted now, that was my link frog put up on here.

I ended up drilling out all my holes and using new CVH studs for the caps (some honeing and counter sinking required)

I bought my tappets from fords which cost me an arm and a leg, they were sitting on my shelf in the garage for a year before i fitted them. (Each one is in it's own oily bag) when i put them in it was noisey for a minuite or so and then it was quiet as a mouse.

I have heard that the Ford ones are the best to get but they cost a fortune and i work for them!!!!

I didn't soak them or anything, and i don't hear any tappet noise anymore, even on start up, just the odd bit of piston slap from cold

pee vee

blimey,, im replacing my lifters next week,,, do you often have to re tap the holes on the exhaust side!?! i really dont wanna have to do that lol

nikh667

Seems one or two guys on here have had to do them - fingers crossed it'll be fine on your car - but to be honest i'd prepare and get things ready just in case...

richm

pee vee - before you undo the cam cap nuts, put a torque wrench on ALL the nuts - 23Nm torque. Provided they torque ok to that figure without pulling out then they should be fine.. It's better to find out at the beginning if they are going to be a problem
If there is any doubt about any, get them helicoiled (can be done in situ if you'r careful and catch all the swarf).

It's normally only the exhaust side that has the problem IIRC, but check the inlets too, it will only take a couple of minutes.

CosKev3

Got my lifters in bits soaking in de-greaser at the minute

Question for lifter experts:5 of my lifters are slightly different to the other 11
The 5 odd one's centres came out easily,but then to strip the centres down to get the small spring out etc I had to lever off a small 'cap' that was holding it all together
Got a receipt with my car for a gen set of lifters,did Ford change the design of there lifters????????
They look identical untill you remove the centre

white cab

golf 8 valve lifters are the same as the cosworth ones so get your self two sets and your laughing at a fraction of the price of cossie ones