wotcha

Just wanted to thank all contributors to this thread - I mamaged to fix the problem foillowing advice from philvbarnes and cookiels21 and now have the fan working on all settings and brownie points from the wife.

I'd be grateful for some advice on solving the cause (water leaking in past pollen filter). I removed the back cover and can the concertinered paper, and in doing so broke what was left of the seal between the windscreen and the cover. It looks like a thin piece of foam double sided sticky tape that I need to replace - can anyone recomend a source for this? I can see some wider 'HEAVY DUTY DOUBLE SIDED MOUNTING TAPE 5m x 24mm' tape on Ebay but am not sure that this is designed for outdoor use.
Thanks in advance, G

pdfbt40

Why not just use the G Ford part ?

1316193
Pollen Filter Seal
Some Ford dealers say its been replaced by 'off the reel' alternative, but I've never had a problem getting it. It has to be 'closed cell' foam so water doesn't seep through.

Also, ensure the white long 'popper' fasteners are in good condition. As you replace the scuttle top look under the edge from the side to ensure they are locating properly. The fasteners can be bought separately (1106903),
but the part welded to the cover can only be replaced a couple of times before the cover (c/w fasteners) has to be replaced.

wotcha

Thanks for the advice pdfbt40. I cannot find just the sealing foam part you describe - could you please recommend some places to try as I don't want to spend Ł20 just for a metre of tape and apollen filter that I don't need. I can find people selling butyl tape, but it is wider that the example used on the focus. Thanks.

pdfbt40

A Ford Parts Dealer (Genuine Ford Parts), just quote the FINIS numbers I quoted. They'll probably still demand the reg. no. and/or VIN until you train them!

Martin

novice-mech

Have been following all info in this thread as I have the same problems with my 1999 Focus heater blower circuit.

Currently have replaced the thermal fuse (with Maplin component for Ł0.82p) but still no joy. Now suspect the switch is at fault but have yet to access it - reckon I need to remove the radio in order to get at the rear of the panel from the inside, where I can start tracing resistances from the switch terminals back through the resistor pack.

Incidentally, having removed the blower motor I have established it's at least functioning ok in itself by turning the ignition so all electrics are on, with the motor unit connected and sitting on the floor of the footwell, and then holding it tight whilst shorting the black/red wire on the heater motor connector to chassis ground using a length of very thick insulated wire (from a mains twin and earth cable). Motor practically jumped out of my hand and there was a nice spark where I was touching my insulated cable to the black/red wire connector, but at least now I know the motor actually still functions.

I found the following wiring diagram from another related forum which helped me work out how to do the above.... maybe others here will find it useful:=.

If anyone's got any advice as to how to go about removing the radio and accessing the rear of the heater blower switch on the dashboard, please let me know.

Cheers

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Re the radio you need a special "U" shaped tool, if you look on the head unit you will see there are two holes either side where the tool is inserted to release the head unit.

Switches are a common problem!

Martin

novice-mech

Yep, thanks, I've seen the kind of thing you're referring to.
Looks as if I might be able to use some bits of wire from a coat hanger to do the same job....correct me if I'm wrong.

I want to be sure that removing the radio will give me the required access to the heater blower switch though, before I bother removing the radio. Can anyone verify this is the right route, or should I be trying some other method of access?

pdfbt40

Yes, thats the way in. Proper radio tools aren't expensive though. There needs to be a notch about 5mm from the tip on each prong to grip the catch to pull the HU out.

There are 4 self tap screws behind the opening, remove those and the coin/ash tray. Pull carefully on the surround, its now only retained by spring clips at each extreme 'corner'.

Martin

novice-mech

Thanks pdfbt40 for the confirmation.

I'll be giving this a go tomorrow and following your hints.
Will report back on this thread.

novice-mech

Radio's out... (coat hanger technique worked fine )
Self-tap screws are out...have managed to ease off the surround panel to an extent, and the heater blower switch contacts are tantalisingly visible, but....

..the coin/ash tray seems to be hitched on something behind the dashboard that I can't see , so I can only pull the surround panel away a centimetre or two before it stops.

You mentioned removing the coin/ash tray. Assume you mean remove it altogether, but I'm not clear how to do this. I can see that removing it altogether would free up the surround panel completely so I could access those switch contacts I need to test.

Any clues?

novice-mech

Spoke too soon - ashtray is now removed, using the following advice:
"The little lid that covers the ashtray when it's closed also works the catch that holds the drawer in. Pull the drawer open until it stops, then push it about a half inch back in. Push the lid down to release the catch, then pull the drawer out. Mine sticks a little bit, and it's pain to get back in (you have to get the rails lined up), but it does come out."

Ok, so I think the switch is faulty - I've tried testing continuity across the various contacts with the switch in various positions - with all the car electrics turned off - it seems all positions are open circuit. Assume this is a valid test, and that I don't need to test with electrics on (as it's a mechanical switch not a logic one)?

Next question - how to remove the switch - I can see a single small screw that looks to be holding the switch assembly to the panel. Do I just unscrew this?

novice-mech

Apologies - must stop posting questions that I can answer myself. Golden rule #94 of forums. I'm going to try the switch removal advice I found on http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_is_the...Focus_accessed

novice-mech

Removed switch from panel ok, but now I can't pull the wiring clip connector off the back of the switch itself!! It seems to be stuck on one side. When I tug/wiggle the connector, one side of it makes a faint 'click' that sounds/feels like an internal catch unfastening, and I'd expect the same on the other side but it doesn't want to budge. No amount of brute force seems to help.
Am I missing a trick?


Also wondering if partsgateway.co.uk is my only online option here in the UK for sourcing a replacement switch....

pdfbt40

The plastic top to the tray is retained by a tab in the centre. With the tray just open, push it down a bit and hold, Continue pulling the tray and about 2/3 of the way out the plastic top will start to come as well.

What's wrong with Jacksons-Teddington; Dagenham Motors-Thames Ditton; Your Ford Main Dealers ?

Martin

novice-mech

Nothing wrong with those options. Just me being dense I guess!

The only online quote I've got so far is via 247spares.co.uk - some place asking Ł24 just for the switch. I'm a bit surprised by that - I'm rather hoping there far better prices to be had out there.

I'm still stuck with this switch connector that won't budge though...

pdfbt40

You are pressing the locking tab? Quite heavy contacts so a srewdriver in the gap is allowed.

Checked Fleabay? Use to be a good turnover in complete modules, inc mech knobs, as spares and colour change.

Martin

novice-mech

ebay solved my problem
Managed to get an entire 2nd hand heater control panel for a much better price than the single switch quotes I had earlier. With a bit of luck once it arrives I'll have my problem solved.

Wondering about why the resistor pack thermal fuse blew in the first place though - this was the first thing I tested and on finding it had blown I replaced it with a new one from Maplin.

Now I'm wondering if, once I've fixed the switch (also clearly faulty), the original problem will rear it's head again and my Maplin thermal fuse will blow. Having checked the blower motor already and found it to be working as far as I can see, I'm thinking there must have been another more subtle problem originally to make the thermal fuse blow. Or would it have done this purely due to old age?

pdfbt40

The root cause of the problem is tight motor bearings from leaks through the pollen filter.

The normal reduction in speed is by heating up the resistors as voltage to the motor is dropped - it always takes the same current. If the motor/blower runs slowly, there is too little air going past the resistor pack to cool it, on the way to the heater box. So the thermal fuse gets too hot and does its thing.

Also, an electric motor that is not free running actually takes a higher current than it should, though not enough to blow the conventional fuse. The fan switch contacts seem a bit marginal as this higher current causes sufficient arcing to burn/melt the contacts.

Hope that makes sense.

Martin

novice-mech

Makes perfect sense. Thanks for the concise explanation - I appreciate it's a bit of a repeat of info you've already given out earlier in the thread, which I should have checked back on...sorry!

Anyway, it does give me cause for concern, since although my motor appeared to at least work (i.e. turn manually without any obvious impediment + spin seemingly ok when in circuit with supply switched on) there must clearly have been a too-high current draw which originally blew the thermal fuse and later (via long-term use of speed setting 4 as the only available option) the switch contacts.

So I am filled with a sense of impending doom which has taken the shine off my small ebay price triumph

I've alreayd WD40'd the top bearings of the motor - i.e. the ones that are immediately accessible. But to be thorough, I might try to prize the motor assembly open (following something someone else posted earlier mentioning rubber lugs that can be pressed in)...to see if I can get some WD40 onto the bottom bearing. Feel free to reassure me the whole thing's not going to fall apart if I do press those rubber lugs in!

pdfbt40

There is a small hole in the bottom motor casing, sort of in the side of the dimple. Think its a condensation drain. You can get a WD40 'straw' into it and soak the area; some will get into the bearing. Better done with the motor out so gravity helps, but not essential.

Martin

novice-mech

Excellent - thanks for the tip.

StevieA

Do it! I've had the 'only working on 4' blown resistor problem twice, then finally it started blowing the fuse on number 4. Suspected sticky bearings on the blower motor was behind problems. Removed the motor as link to US site diagram (thanks!), and yes indeed, stiff to rotate (will not spin with a twirl). Bit the bullet and took out of housing by pressing in rubber lugs. Dead easy, and no nasty surprises when it comes apart. Very cruddy (see pic - L arrows for lubrication, Rx3 indicates one of rubber lugs) in bearing area. Got WD40 on this and, via straw, onto fan end bearing, and now spins as expected. Tried it on 4 setting just holding motor by hand with and now works fine. Awaiting arrival of thermal fuses (216 degree C are available on ebay) to fix resistor now. Many, many thanks to those who took the trouble to give walk-throughs on this problem (especially pdfbt40 and philvbarnes ).



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

novice-mech

Thanks! Very revealing, that photo of yours. And it makes me think I really do need to open up the motor completely as you've done.
Reckon I'll be biting the bullet later this week....now the precious blower switch has arrived from my ebay seller I'm loath to install it and risk burning it out immediately and repeating the whole sorry saga over again.

btw: the reason I couldn't detach the old switch from its connector [see earlier post] was due to the plastic having melted - excess current I suppose - and bonded the the whole thing together!

I echo your thanks to all concerned for all the help.

novice-mech

Ok, motor has been taken apart. WD40 has been administered...

Another question: just how freely should the motor spin unaided when given a manual flick with the hand? Without knowing this it's difficult to assess if my WD40 has been applied liberally enough and in all the right places, and to gauge whether there's anything further amiss with the motor.

Currently, when I flick the white plastic blower blades with my hand, the motor spins on its own for about 1.5-2 revolutions (I'm guessing). It comes to a stop pretty quickly after this and it feels like there's definitely quite a bit of friction within the whole assembly i.e. the spindle isn't constantly loosely turning in response to any movement of the unit (e.g. when picked up)

StevieA

That's about the same as mine. Before WD40, no free spin at all after a flick; after, about 1 rev. Bear in mind that electric motors spin within magnets and so never spin completely freely like a bike wheel. Mine is now back in car and, after fixing resistor with 215 degree thermal fuse from ebay, working fine so far. I expect trouble down the line however - WD40 never a permanent solution - and will prob replace motor next time.

Rauno

Found the problem.
Thanks anyway.

Here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CJ-Bb-3Blg

pdfbt40

StevieA,

Your right, WD40 isn't usually a permanent fix. However, if you've fixed the fundimental problem of water into the motor from above, shouldn't be any further problem.


Rauno,

Yes, that's a pretty fundimental 'short to Ground' ! Have to love the de-burring Ford do on 'covered' stamped metalwork.

Interesting is that the Mondeo/Cougar in both manual and SATC use vacuum to move the 3 direction flaps. The temperature flap is controlled by an electric motor.

Martin

dafranmo

Same problem - no A/C and blower worked only on position 4. Thanks to all who identified fault, and particularly efiste2 for the photograph of where to find the resistor pack and to philvbarnes for the hint to to just replace the thermal cutout. Mind you, it's 82p at Maplin now!

chuffed-addick

chuffed-addick

All sorted now! was just the switch at fault... looks like the internal air light comes on when the dial is at 0! so switch knackered means the system thinks it's switched off and on comes the light!
Instructions on here for replacing the switch were spot on and didn't take long to fix at all.

tdmike

I have had the same problem as you guys (blower only working on number 4)i took the blower out and checked the motor out ,it was a bit gunked up around the bearings ,so a good clean up and some wd40 later it was spinning fine ,i took the resistor pack out and tried the blower it still worked only on number 4 not sure if this should have done this with no resistor pack in i thought it shouldnt have worked at all with nothing in,tomorrow im off to maplins to buy one of those 215degree resistor will let you know how it goes

tdmike

Can anyone tell me wot type of resistor they asked for at maplins ie.the name or part number thanks all

tdmike

Just fitted a 228 degree c microtemp thermal fuse into the resistor pack ,i used the clamps to fix it instead of soldering it,plugged it in and works a treat ,not bad for Ł0.82p from maplins instead of Ł16 from fords thx all for the info

dazjam

After reading all the comments with regards to the heaters not working I changed the resistor in my "Y" reg focus 2 days ago it worked straight away but today it has again stopped working what could be the cause? any ideas ?
Thanks

martysmartie

iTrader: (1)

Does the motor work on position 4? If it does and not on any other setting then you have a faulty "Resistor pack"!

Martin

pdfbt40

Somewhere back there ^^^^^ I think I explained the fault tree of this problem.

Usually a badly fitted LHS Scuttle cover is not sealed to the windscreen. Ford supply a double sided adhesive foam strip to do this. If the seal, by foam seal or other bodge, isn't sealing, water drips down (through the pollen filter) into the top of the blower motor. Instead of spinning freely it only runs at a very slow speed. With reduced airflow across the resistors the thermal limit fuse in the pack fails.

If you only replace the pack, its not too long before it overheats again and the thermal fuse fails. You have to deal with the 'root' cause, not just the immediate cause.

1) Check the top cover and the pollen filter. Replace seals, clips, screws, pop rivets, etc.
2) Remove blower fan/motor from underneath. Carefully dismantle and free off bearings and lubricate, or replace with a good s/h one.
3) Now replace/repair resistor pack. A replacement thermal fuse from Maplin can be soldered in place costing just a few quid.

The other Martin

dazjam

Thanks for the reply i have checked the top cover everything seems fine and i then removed the blower and it is clean and turning freely fitted a brand new resistor whilst the blower was still removed i turned it on but it still only works on number 4 ,any ideas what else could be the problem is it the fuse or the motor or something more.

thanks

Jim

pdfbt40

Current only flows through the resistor pack for 1-3, its a direct feed for 4. On some models, but not as common on Focus, the resistor pack connector gets high resistance on the contacts and burns them. If the feed contact is burnt, no reduced speeds.
The dealers have been known to offer to supply the 'repair kit' with the replacement resistor pack.

So inspect and check the plug contacts as you've alreay changed the resistor.

xxshepxx

mine is messing up just now.

Heater worked on 2 and 4
Then would come back on all settings, then change again to only 4

Checked all fuses, no faults found
Replaced resistor with original ford part, problem still there, NO settings working at all now.
Checked motor, motor turning freely, not a hint of resistance.

Now, Turn the dial to 4 and put pressure on the switch, and it works, let off the pressure and it stops.. Only does this on setting 4.

I guess the single dial cannot be replaced? it seems pretty well sealed, i was going to try and fix it.

Limited tools at this time of night means I cannot get the radio etc out so stuck tomorrow in -4c with no heaters etc...

pdfbt40

It certainly sounds like the switch is at fault. It is available as a separate item but requires removal of the radio and the whole panel as described earlier.

Martin