FAO chip & stu(map v rpm and throttle pos)
16-12-2005, 10:10 AM
#1
FAO chip & stu(map v rpm and throttle pos)
okl my dta and a lot of dta users rpm vereses load but gareth enlightened me into map verses rpm ad the dta has compensation map seems not to matter either way u do it
BUT
lol there always is with me what are ur preffered way for the happy medium drivability and power
cheers jay[/quote]
BUT
lol there always is with me what are ur preffered way for the happy medium drivability and power
cheers jay[/quote]
16-12-2005, 10:12 AM
#2
I suspect Stu will say he is completely not bothered wether its RPM vs TPS + map as an adjustment or if its RPM vs map + TPS
The reason being he remaps existing systems all the time so has no choice but to do it the way they do so must have loads of experience of both.
Personally i find rpm vs map easier to get my head around.
Stu of course has to deal with airflow as well on many setups.
The reason being he remaps existing systems all the time so has no choice but to do it the way they do so must have loads of experience of both.
Personally i find rpm vs map easier to get my head around.
Stu of course has to deal with airflow as well on many setups.
16-12-2005, 10:21 AM
#7
Me three, im actually going to send my DTA off to swap it round as mine is on the older software that wont do rpm vs map at the moment.
Although i have toyed with the idea of an AMM as "load" and trying it that way, just cause that seems to work so well in production cars!
Although i have toyed with the idea of an AMM as "load" and trying it that way, just cause that seems to work so well in production cars!
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16-12-2005, 10:36 AM
#11
Ecu is just sat minding its own business on the shelf at the moment, but i will be using it in a couple of months.
Are you saying the chip you have is a direct swap into the ECU and will then accept map vs rpm?
If so, why not use it yourself instead of doing it the load way?
Be a good excuse to map it all over again from scratch
Thanks very much for the offer, MUCH appreciated, and if you dont decide to use it then i would certianly be interested in it
Are you saying the chip you have is a direct swap into the ECU and will then accept map vs rpm?
If so, why not use it yourself instead of doing it the load way?
Be a good excuse to map it all over again from scratch
Thanks very much for the offer, MUCH appreciated, and if you dont decide to use it then i would certianly be interested in it
16-12-2005, 11:07 AM
#17
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Might be of interest to you Chip if you want the latest version of the DTA eprom - i just e-mailed Allan at DTA at about 3pm on a Friday afternoon a few months back and the new eprom was with me at 11am on the Saturday morning!
2 minutes to get the case apart and swap the eproms and jobs a good'un!
and it didnt cost me a penny
So might be worth doing that to get the very latest version?
2 minutes to get the case apart and swap the eproms and jobs a good'un!
and it didnt cost me a penny
So might be worth doing that to get the very latest version?
16-12-2005, 12:39 PM
#24
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You wont need the first column to be 0 as you'll never see that (i have got 0 as my 1st column at the moment and havent been bothered to change it yet, but if i dont, i'll lose a column of load sites)
i have got similar ish to you... something like 0, 20, 40, 60, 80 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, 225, 250, 275 and 288.
i have got similar ish to you... something like 0, 20, 40, 60, 80 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, 225, 250, 275 and 288.
16-12-2005, 01:00 PM
#25
PassionFord Post Troll
I take it the load figures are in Kpa?
I doubt you will see any less than 30 Kpa, so as sketch said, no need to have load sites under that.
One thing to point out is that your load points don't have to be linear.
You may find that as you carry on mapping it will make more sense to group some load sites out where there are big fueling changes and space some out where the fuelling doesn't change much.
For example the transition between vacum and boost always seems quite a hard point to map, so i bunch a few load points up around 100Kpa to get it spot on. Its all about getting higher resolution at the points where you need it.
You can also do this with the rpm sites.
I would suggest you try and find a dyno sheet of an engine that is similar spec to you and check out where the biggest changes in the torque curve are. Bunch your sites up around these areas beacause this will be where the biggest changes in fuelling are.
You might find that you can map it reasonably ok with linear load points, but it does tend to be harder on turbo engines, big cam engines, or ecus with less resolution eg 12x12 maps rather than 30x30.
I doubt you will see any less than 30 Kpa, so as sketch said, no need to have load sites under that.
One thing to point out is that your load points don't have to be linear.
You may find that as you carry on mapping it will make more sense to group some load sites out where there are big fueling changes and space some out where the fuelling doesn't change much.
For example the transition between vacum and boost always seems quite a hard point to map, so i bunch a few load points up around 100Kpa to get it spot on. Its all about getting higher resolution at the points where you need it.
You can also do this with the rpm sites.
I would suggest you try and find a dyno sheet of an engine that is similar spec to you and check out where the biggest changes in the torque curve are. Bunch your sites up around these areas beacause this will be where the biggest changes in fuelling are.
You might find that you can map it reasonably ok with linear load points, but it does tend to be harder on turbo engines, big cam engines, or ecus with less resolution eg 12x12 maps rather than 30x30.
16-12-2005, 01:41 PM
#26
As garage 19 says, you probably need to alter them when you see where you need more resolution.
you could probably repalce 0-5 with
0
40
80
and quite happily let it interpolate between them, which would free up 2 load sites for where it matters more.
you could probably repalce 0-5 with
0
40
80
and quite happily let it interpolate between them, which would free up 2 load sites for where it matters more.
16-12-2005, 02:12 PM
#29
PassionFord Post Troll
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Makes low end resolutions even less important if you are closed loop anyway!
Just out of interest, I take it DTA has 14x14 tables?
How good is the mapping software? Someone once mentioned to me that it wasn't very user friendly when mapping it live?
16-12-2005, 02:22 PM
#31
PassionFord Post Troll
In a way, sometimes i think thats the better way to do things. Makes it easier to understand whats going on in your engine.
I tend to live map to a point and then data log and fine tune to get it spot on.
Has DTA got data logging facilities?
I tend to live map to a point and then data log and fine tune to get it spot on.
Has DTA got data logging facilities?
16-12-2005, 02:28 PM
#32
I use a wideband that logs:
AFR / Rpm / Boost
You have to tap into the boost and rpm signal though obviously.
I prefer to do it that way cause i can drive it myself then, so if i feel something wrong i can stop.
Also means 10 seconds use is enough for a fair bit of offline mapping, so you dont have to drive an umapped car very much.
AFR / Rpm / Boost
You have to tap into the boost and rpm signal though obviously.
I prefer to do it that way cause i can drive it myself then, so if i feel something wrong i can stop.
Also means 10 seconds use is enough for a fair bit of offline mapping, so you dont have to drive an umapped car very much.
16-12-2005, 02:54 PM
#33
ok first thing first chip, chips posted right the colum i have put up was to see it i understood the principle .
ok right ive got a power graph of the car on webber managment and im only runin 2 psi more boost at the mo so could i use this as a ref?
right i still cant put my map up lol tick as feck
so my rpm load sites are as follows
501
800
1400
1800
2200
2600
ect so my thought was to put more rpm sites in especaily towords the mid and top end then like u have said move the kpa around a little then hopefully get a real smooth light throttle ect then a mean mid/top eend
yes i am goin closed loop for idle and cruze but irtll be switched at a higher rpm
cheers jay
ok right ive got a power graph of the car on webber managment and im only runin 2 psi more boost at the mo so could i use this as a ref?
right i still cant put my map up lol tick as feck
so my rpm load sites are as follows
501
800
1400
1800
2200
2600
ect so my thought was to put more rpm sites in especaily towords the mid and top end then like u have said move the kpa around a little then hopefully get a real smooth light throttle ect then a mean mid/top eend
yes i am goin closed loop for idle and cruze but irtll be switched at a higher rpm
cheers jay
16-12-2005, 02:58 PM
#34
If you have the power curve, any peaks on the torque curve need to be a load point really.
BUT bare in mind that they might have been peaks on the old setup cause of how it was mapped not for any physical reason.
BUT bare in mind that they might have been peaks on the old setup cause of how it was mapped not for any physical reason.
16-12-2005, 03:06 PM
#35
ok but i can use the graph as a reference point?
also the lc1 gauge ive got has got lm1 contoller so its gona be hard wired in , another thing i need to learn is how to use the log facilities on the dta + the controller so theres guna be sum serious readin over xmas lol
so once ive built my sudam hussain ear muffs ill have everything i need hopefully
cheers jay
also the lc1 gauge ive got has got lm1 contoller so its gona be hard wired in , another thing i need to learn is how to use the log facilities on the dta + the controller so theres guna be sum serious readin over xmas lol
so once ive built my sudam hussain ear muffs ill have everything i need hopefully
cheers jay
16-12-2005, 03:11 PM
#36
Originally Posted by Garage19
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Makes low end resolutions even less important if you are closed loop anyway!
Just out of interest, I take it DTA has 14x14 tables?
How good is the mapping software? Someone once mentioned to me that it wasn't very user friendly when mapping it live?
i think it is 14x28 when doin a live map its a little bit of a pratt as u adjust what ur workin on then save it then go back into the screen but once ur use to it it aint bad and also its the first time ive played with standalone so to me its all i no lmao
cheers jay