hi I'm looking at getting a set of long studs for a 200 block I'm putting together. And I'm thinking of getting them from burton power there approx £220 . Has any one get any forts on them or no of any better one

 

This is who Mountune used to use:

http://www.pmasonengineering.co.uk/

Based in Essex.

 

same place that done mine,im sure they machine the block and supply the studs for £450.

 

Yep and do any other block work you need too e.g. spray jets & block decking.

 

are yeah i forgot,they done that for me also👍

 

best to get the studs from the same place that does the machining as there are different diameters where the O rings go and also different lengths of studs. i have 3 200 blocks and they all need different stud types.

 

Thanks for the replies lads very good of you . The place you have talked about is over 100 miles from me so I'm going to talk to the place iv used befor and I'm using to put a liner into the block .
Thanks again lads

 

Am I right in saying there is a type of long stud that isn't particularly good? From memory it's the type that has a flange around the point of the block deck, and when the studs are screwed down in - this flange seals (with an o ring) against a recess in the block surface. These are bad because you can get a false fastening as it can bottom out in the recess rather than the stud being fully home in the base of the block? I was told that the better type are the ones that have a groove around the stud at the block surface and an o ring sits in this groove and makes a friction seal against the sides of the hole drilled in the deck surface. Allowing the stud to fully sit home in the base of the block.

If anyone knows anymore the info would be good.

Correction : the second type don't have a groove at all. They are completely smooth all the way to the bottom and use a much bigger double 'lipped' o ring type seal where the stud goes through the block deck.. therefore no friction can be obtained at the block surface and correct torque figures obtained as the only contact point is in the base of the block. Has anyone had similar findings?

 

I'm not familiar with the particular stud type you are referring to but there are at least two diameters of O ring flange type. i don't recall the actual diameters but one of my sets of studs only fits one of my blocks as the block has a larger counterbore to take the larger O ring flange. on that block, the machining of the larger counterbore for the O ring flange has encroached into the cylinder head oil hole and it was necessary to plug the oil hole and then grind the plug out to make the counterbore circular. i've seen other blocks with that work done and spoken with others who have also had this type of block /stud.

of my other two blocks which have the same (smaller) diameter of O ring flange, the studs are different lengths. i didn't know that different lengths existed and bought set (from burtons) and, whilst they were the same thread, they only engaged for a short distance. i measured the ones I'd earlier removed from the block and they were longer on the bottom half (don't recall how much maybe 8-10mm). the shorter burtons ones were also causing the lower edge of the O ring flange to hit the counterbore in the block face and as the studs were tightened in a dial gauge on the deck face was showing that the deck was being distorted by tightening of the studs into the block. (there is a torque figure which istr is 50 lb ft0

i never worked out what was going on but got some longer studs and all worked out ok.

hope this helps - like i said, get the studs wherever you get the machining done and save many hours of head scratching!

 

This sounds vaguely familiar. It was like you say the block face could be distorted using a particular type of studs, however I was also under the impression they were the most common. Again it could be isolated incidents but I heard it from a good source.

I didn't take the studs out of my block to change to this method ( the idea being I would remove the studs, use a lathe to machine of the flange on the stud, then re-install using he different block face seal) - I based that decision on the fact the block had been fine for many miles and didn't want to disturb it.

I'll see if I have a photo of the seal

 

Don't have a photo of the seal but do have one of the studs I have in my block. These show the flange at the block deck level that can sometimes cause distortion of the face - the cure being the stud should be a continuous diameter it's whole length and a seal sits around the stud sealing the hole into the water jacket.

 

I used julian godreys stud in mine

 

Yes they do not use the stud type above as far as I'm aware. If I ever need my studs re-doing this is where I would be going.

 

My blocks just been done at m.a.d with his studs

 

that block has the same issue as one of mine: the O ring shoulder diameter is such that the counter bore to accommodate it encroached into the oil hole and required an ally plug

 

Yes I noticed that, I'm assuming this would still be the case no matter what type/design of studs you use.

 

out of curiosity, i dug out my old notes about the studs i was seeking last time i needed some. one of the sets i have is 108mm long from the underside of the shoulder to the end (so, basically thats the length of the lower half not including the shoulder). those studs fitted in one my blocks fine with plenty of thread engagement and the shoulder with O ring fitted sitting just below the deck surface. those studs however, were too short for another block - pulling the deck down as i mentioned earlier and not having a long section of thread engagement. i tried burtons but thier studs were the same length. those from SCS however were longer (115mm) and had more engagement and could be torqued into the block without the shoulder touching the counterbore.

i never did get to the bottom of the issue which, on the face of it, suggests that the block deck height on one of the blocks is about 10mm below spec and counterbores for the shoulders machined deeper accordingly (unlikley), or the tapped holes in the block's saddle are somehow different depths. maybe one is a turkish block and they are different?

l'd recomend that you get studs from the same place you get the machining done

 

McCloud 85, can I ask what comp ratio you are running as I notice your pistons have no valve cut outs?

 

Yeah I'd agree with this, it seems there are different lengths/dimensions and could be fatal if a different machining tolerance is mixed with the wrong studs. If/when I go for a rebuild this is something I would ensure happens.

Unfortunately I have very little info on the engine in terms of these details. As far as I was aware it was a fairly low comp build. It can be quite lethargic off Boost and not with high revs. I believe it has a standard exhaust and a BD15 inlet cam if that helps at all. Why do you ask?

 

This is why I used Julian Godfrey longstuds as they have a seal that's smaller with less interference with the oil ways ect and there his design to work with rally x engines so I felt a lot more assured that there up to the job for my spec lol

 

Small update iv been over to see the lads at graham good racing and we have got a plan set up . Graham good are going to supply the long studs I'm going to drop my block off to them on a small pallet and there going to get the studs fitted into the block for me it did slip out that it's a place that mount tune use for all there work . Yes it's going to cost but it will be 100% right when I get it back I will post some photos up when it's back . Thanks lads for all your input to this

 

can you not just post to the machinist and cut out ggr,save yourself some money?

 

That would be http://pmasonengltd.co.uk/ where other people suggested, they also make the studs, nuts and washers

Steve

 

this is who i used,great service.
i travelled from newcastle and was knocking one the door at 6.30 in the morning,as promised there where there with the job done.

 

Same place who done my 10 studs and modded my water pump to suit as well, they also done the oil return to block mod to help cool cylinder 3 I think it is that tends to run hot I was told

 

Thanks lads I'm going to drop them a email and see wot they have to say

 

honestly mate if there only an hour or so away it drive there with the block and let them do it.
give them a call im sure youll be happy with the price and like i say the service was excellent

 

thanks mate
I have emailed them now mate and asked them about the long studs and spray jets as well