Chip

iTrader: (3)

Why if you have a decent engine that likes to rev and hence you are going to take to 7500rpm on a track would you want to ignore that and worry about 4K?

Im NEVER as low as 4k in my XE corsa on track for example (cammed and bodies) and I cant imagine why I would ever want to be, optimising that point in the rev range would just make me slower than concentrating on the high RPM stuff.

coxyboi

To those that say the st isn't that quick, even as standard it gets some good track times. But may not be the best drag car! The engine is built stronger, can have a few mods to liven it up and gain a few bhp, but big power wound need enging rethink turbo, charger, pistons engine management ,
Many of the st parts can be robbed and used on the 2l

coxyboi

Was just an example,
When you drop the clutch to pull off, or change up the gears, the rev's will drop and the power is needed to bring back the rev's
Most wrc will show this

coxyboi

The st rev's to 7200 and a bit more if remap'd but you can't drive at 7000 rpm all the time unless its an f1 and can rev up to 12,000rpm

coxyboi

What I was trying to say more power over a longer rev range is better than adding to a peek say at 7000rpm making it hard for practical use, but a long increase lasting say from 6000 to 7000 would be better even if the peek numbers don't change,

vroomtshh

Seriously stop talking before Chip has to multi quote all your replies.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Pulling away is irrelevant to a trackday car TBH, you're normally into 2nd gear before you are out of the pitlane.

If you change up at 7500rpm, then you'll be over 5K still anyway, in fact 6K maybe if you have a close enough gearbox.


I do agree that you need a couple of thousand RPM of useable power at least though, the more the better, but you sounded like you didnt want any revs or bhp.


WRC car are an example of how to build a shite engine, they would be TOTALLY different if they werent completely crippled by the restrictor, but then everyone would die again like in group b when they were actually allowed to make turbo engines that revved!

Mike C

iTrader: (1)

It does, hence I said 140bhp allowing few a few very basic, cheap mods to the engine and breathing.

I also forgot to add, a good thorough service should be carried out too.

ShiftyOldScoob

iTrader: (3)

Another option would be a mucky integra type R....can be had for less than 3k

Or a k20 civic can now be had for under 3k...seen a lovely cat D repaired one with 88k on a 53 plate go for Ł2250....all you'd need to do to that is rip the interior out, cracking car out the box!

I know I'm bigging up the hondas here but I've been looking into a track hack for a good while now and TBH there isn't a much cheaper, faster and most importantly reliable way to do it!

I do agree with chip though, 172, lightened and lowered. Needs nowt else and it'll be a hoot out on track

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Civic type R is a good call if he can find a cheap one, like you say a cat c or something is not a problem for a trackday car, they're very capable cars and the engine and box is amazing for modifying.

ajc.78

I have an st170 which I now use for track days. It was never very quick on the road but I have found it to be alright on track days. I imagine people with more track experience would find it too slow but for my level of experience it has done ok.

I have also found it to be quite reliable and after a fair few track days have not really had any particular problems with it. With a few mods (mine is still in need of more work) I think they are decent enough to have some fun and reckon they look at home on track they handle ok as well









it's never going to set any records but I do think they are ok for enjoying the track day experience.

al

Madgit

Whilst everybody's making suggestions, we still haven't any idea of the budget but at first the OP thought a Clio was out of range. So I think whacking throttle bodies and all these suspension mods etc is definitely out.
Personally if it had to be Ford and as cheap as possible, I'd have a 1.7 Puma over a standard Focus for track use. Brakes, strip and NOS it, if budget allowed, pretty sure that would be better than a mildly fettled (non ST) Focus.

dombloke

dombloke

The budget is still undecided, but likely to between 1-2k. Also depends on whether I can get my brother in law involved in it.

Thanks everyone for the your replies and input. Before I started this thread I was 100% sure that I was going to get a 2.0 Focus, send it on a weight loss program, add a performance filter and front brake pads and take it to a track day. Now I'm not so sure.

All this talk of 172's.

I recall a couple of years ago, a couple of laps in a 182 as a passenger at a track day and I remember how F***ing fast it was...in the wet!

dombloke

My mate, the owner of the 182 also said I shouldn't bother with the focus. Just get a 172 and a set of 888's. Job done?

CrOwSoN15

You really can't beat a Clio.
My mate bought a 172 cup for 1.3k with a Dephaser pully needed doing. Later sold it for Ł1600.
Bang for buck, they can't be beaten.

16vzetec

this is a no brainer to me, you can pick up an ok st170 for Ł1500 and an ok 2.0l for about Ł1000.
so about Ł500 saving.
st170 has beter seats, 40bhp more, miles better brakes, better suspension, it would cost you way more than Ł500 to get the same performance from a std 2.0l and loads of agro.
ive driven both cars a few times and the st is a good base for a track car, std 2.0l is a nice road car
ps id rather have a crash in a focus than a clio, think safety too!

Straight_4_N/a

your only going to get a shit st for that price and thats abit high for a std focus a mk1 in avrage nick is only worth Ł700 and an st in avrage nick is Ł2500, so you looking at a price diffrence of Ł1,800 (give or take a few notes).
if your look at a track car the first thing your going to do is bin the heavy ass std seats so thats pointless. 40bhp lmfao even one in mint condtion with low milage wont have 40bhp more at best on a avrage car thay on have 20bhp more at the wheels and have the same torque. well yes the brakes are better but thats only Ł150 to change that.

ha you having a laugh the focus suspension is shocking that is one thing you would change on both cars.

Yes Ł500 is more than enough to bring a std 2.0 upto st standards (brakes Ł150 suspension Ł50 exhaust Ł100 remap Ł200 and before you say thats not the cost of them IT IS you buy an st170 your buying used parts and thats the cost of the extra things you would need from a scrap yard and a remap on top just to give it that extra little kick)

there the same car just one with a couple of extras and all road cars are ok for the road for the track you want a low stiff light car which thats somthing neither of them are! and thay both have to have the say things looked at and yes the st170 mite be alittle bit cheap on the brakes side but the std 2.0 engine is alot easyer and cheaper to get more power from it and its less likley to have been ragged every where most of its life.

Thats one thing i got to say your right on, you dont crash in french cars you just die in them.

Madgit

Don't crash then!
Anyone who thinks a Focus is a better choice for a track car than a Clio needs to be sectioned.
Chapter closed.

Straight_4_N/a

Hang Him lol.

Id realy like to see any 2.0 n/a clio moded with in reasen of my car even keep up with me on a track let alone over take me... ive got a 2.0 n/a focus.

Madgit

Least you took it the right way lol.
What have you done to your Focus, because if it's standard, I think you've been hanging around the skunk too long.

vroomtshh

Don;t Renault have the best NCAP ratings of anyone recently.

Porkie

iTrader: (1)

Clio 172cup or Pug 306 or Honda.

Forget the Focus.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Go have a play with porkie

Straight_4_N/a

Engine
Kent Vern Pulleys
Stage 2 Head
CFM Crank Pulley And Water Pump Pulley
TTV Flywheel
FSE Power Boost Vaule
CFM T/B
BMC Sealed Intake Box
90mm Cold Air Feed
Ford 4-2-1 Exhaust Manifold
LongLife De-Cat
LongLife 2.5 Bore Cat Bk Exhaust
1 Litre Oil Catcher Tank
Mocal 19 Row Oil Rad



Transmisson
1.8 IB5 Gearbox
Custom Short Shifter
PolyBush Toqrue Link

Brakes/Wheels/Tyres
300mm ST170 Front
280mm ST170 Rear
Custom Drilled Front Discs
ECB Green Front Pads
Std Rear
Pro Race 15x7 Alloys
Buget Tyres

Suspension
Polybush Front
Gmax Fixed Shocks
Gmax 40mm Springs
E-Tech Front Upper Strut Brace
OMP Front Lowwer Strut Brace
12.5mm Rear Axle spacers
10mm Front Wheel Spacers

Interior
Corbeau Bucket Seat
Striped Interior
6 Point Bolt-In FIA Roll Cage
1.5 Litre Fuel Swirl Pot

Exterior
Bonnet Lightened With WRC Bonnet Scoop And Bonnet Pins Fitted
Carbonfibre Wings
Poly Windows
de-wipered

And all it needs to be done now is a nasty set of cams and ive got one extra thing thats not on the list for an added 50bhp+ if i need it

{[I think you've been hanging around the skunk too long]} Is tha some kind of illegal drug?

Madgit

Yes it's the weed lol. I don't think you'd pull away from my standard Clio much, if at all in that, let alone a modded Clio! Or have you been on your NOS which sort of takes the N/A away a bit IMO.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Nitrous is of relatively limited use on a racetrack TBH, it just runs out too damn quickly if you rely on it for power.


Porkie in his moderately tuned and still got electric windows and all steel panels etc clio would properly dry hump you over a few laps around a track in that thing I reckon even if you did use gas!

This is him against a supercharged exige cup car around snetterton:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvneFOUM0kM

Epic little cars these clios!


This is it when it was barely anymore than standard power versus a ferrari 355

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAlRdKKgbnI

vroomtshh

Nothing about the spec of that Focus makes it sound like any kind of a threat to a standard 172/182.

Which is the reason they make such excellent track cars.

Straight_4_N/a

well it wouldnt be very good for ford if with more bhp and torque i couldn't win unless i was a usless driver,i did say modded within reason of my focus. i got the nos for hillclimbs and before you say its not one of those button systems it feeds when the thorttle is wide open but i realy i dont want to use it as it will kill the engine.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

No it isnt good for ford, but that doesnt stop it being reality.



Why will it kill the engine?

I put dozens of bottles of gas through my vauxhall engine, 124bhp@wheels without gas. 228bhp@wheels with gas.

Never had so much as a prematurely killed spark plug.


The problem you will have against a half reasonable clio, is they go round bends so much better.


Most hillclimb series wont let you run gas still I beleive.

Straight_4_N/a

well the engines still under st170 specs and it will eat and st170 for breakfast and are you realy so sure to cars with the same ish power but one can rev much faster and its lighter...

vroomtshh

I'm 100% sure. A standard 172/182 against a focus with that spec, same driver, same track, the Clio will spank it. It wouldn;t even be a race

Chip

iTrader: (3)

And the other one goes around bends, lol

Plus in the case of porkies, TBH even in a straight line it would probably have you as his clio is 212bhp on the new engine we just built and yours doesnt sound likes it going to be that much

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Did you not see my question asking why you nitrous kit will kill you engine?

Ive used much bigger kits than that and NEVER had a problem

Straight_4_N/a

its killed my last two engines why i dont know its only setup for 75bhp (but i think thats only 50 bhp in real life)

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Well its setup wrong.

What did the last 2 engines die of?
Rod out block?
Gasket failure?
Melted piston?


Where abouts are you from?

What make nitrous kit is it?

Straight_4_N/a

rod right though the block one side and then straight though the other side and melted pistons

wales

its a wizards of nos kit.

Chip

iTrader: (3)

The melting was more than likely it setup wrong.

The rod through the block was more than likely a problem with the engine itself, but given that people manage to make that sort of power on a turbo, it shouldnt be a problem with nitrous.


I would say the rod was probably just a worn out engine that couldnt handle it (or did you put it in at very low rpm?), and the melting implies you have it jetted too lean.

Do you vary the jet sizes in summer and winter?
What is your fuel pressure?
Do you have a bottle heater?

What are your current jet sizes?


Do you have a picture of the install so that I can check you havent made any schoolboy errors with pipework etc?


I have geen good friends with Trev (aka the wizard of nos his company was named after) and using his kits for upwards of 15 years now, and I have quite a good knowledge of them (I wrote the nitrous guide in fast ford as well if you read it?) so Im asking these questions to try and help you not to be nosey!

Straight_4_N/a

Nope i didnt know you had to change them.
anit got a clue ive got an fse power boost and that was setup with the nos.
nope. (mmm when the first engine when it was snowing and the bottle was like ice could have that caused it?)

anit got a clue i dont know much about nos to be honest but i can rember it was 75bhp setup for (its years old).

well thats alittle problem im moving it from one car to my other car a min (swaping from a 5 door shell to a 3 door shell) but i rember where it all came and went, one line from the nos bottle to the blue injecoter thing then it spilts of into two lines one going to the manifold and one to the intake pipe that bolts to the t/b then theres one red line going from the fuel line to the one injector thats in the pipe (i can show you what thay done to the second hole for the one in the manifold and where thay placed them now????)

also if its helps or not the controller unit for it has revs on it and its big and sliver (metal)

Chip

iTrader: (3)

Its things like length and pathway of lines that is critical.

When its all back on, take some pictures, and whip the jets out and let me know the numbers on them.

When its cold it will go richer, when its hot it will go leaner.

So if its setup in the winter, in the summer its likely to melt.