RWD rules for TOTB and what constitutes a tubbed car
31-01-2006 | 01:44 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 142
Likes: 1
RWD rules for TOTB and what constitutes a tubbed car
Im helping out with putting together a vauxhall team for TOTB, which by definition is going to be mainly FWD as the vauxhall 4wd system is crap and not many people with rwd vauxhalls seem interested in the event.
However i have one car that i would like on the team to run in the RWD class.
It runs regular "road legal drag radial tyres" is driven 10,000 miles or more a year in EXACTLY the same trim as it runs up the strip (even the tyres remain the same) its never trailored to events, is to my mind 101% the sort of car the event is all about, ie road legal cars that are quick.
So in principle seems like the ideal car to enter, however i vaguely remember something about tubbed cars not being allowed, now i understand why they dont want cars with massive tyres that nearly meet in the middle entering, so i fully understand that reasoning.
This car does run modified internal arches, but ONLY to allow it to be lowered, its not running big wide slicks, and in fact is also very keep to compete in the handling section which its happy to do on one set of tyres for the whole event, its not be any means a drag queen car.
Its a 2.0 turbo (internally standard in fact!) engine transplanted from another car in the range (calibra turbo) so from that point of view is not more modded than a ZVH escort or fiesta.
So 2 questions really:
1) In peoples opinions should such a car be allowed to enter?
2) According to the rules is it allowed to enter.
Now obviously only the second one really matters as to wether i can pick it for the team or not, but just interested in the first one too as from my point of view a daily driven road car that wants to enter all 3 disciplines on the same tyres it runs going to tesco IS in the spirit of the event so i wondered if i was alone on thinking like that?
However i have one car that i would like on the team to run in the RWD class.
It runs regular "road legal drag radial tyres" is driven 10,000 miles or more a year in EXACTLY the same trim as it runs up the strip (even the tyres remain the same) its never trailored to events, is to my mind 101% the sort of car the event is all about, ie road legal cars that are quick.
So in principle seems like the ideal car to enter, however i vaguely remember something about tubbed cars not being allowed, now i understand why they dont want cars with massive tyres that nearly meet in the middle entering, so i fully understand that reasoning.
This car does run modified internal arches, but ONLY to allow it to be lowered, its not running big wide slicks, and in fact is also very keep to compete in the handling section which its happy to do on one set of tyres for the whole event, its not be any means a drag queen car.
Its a 2.0 turbo (internally standard in fact!) engine transplanted from another car in the range (calibra turbo) so from that point of view is not more modded than a ZVH escort or fiesta.
So 2 questions really:
1) In peoples opinions should such a car be allowed to enter?
2) According to the rules is it allowed to enter.
Now obviously only the second one really matters as to wether i can pick it for the team or not, but just interested in the first one too as from my point of view a daily driven road car that wants to enter all 3 disciplines on the same tyres it runs going to tesco IS in the spirit of the event so i wondered if i was alone on thinking like that?
Trending Topics
31-01-2006 | 02:02 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 142
Likes: 1
Well it looks like a Matt Black shitter yes, although i think that if you looked underneath at how mint it is you would be surprised, LOL
Thats the car in question, and to put into perspective how quick it is, its faster up the quarter than Rod's so far!
Not bad on an engine that literally owed mick about 50 quid to build.
Absolute top bloke, really serious about his racing but totally into using the car on the road too.
He found the gearchange slow when using a T5 box so swapped to type 9 ones instead, now to most people that would be a stupid move as it means they are weaker, Micks answer to that problem, he gets a lift home and fetches a new box if he breaks one, and then runs again in the afternoon after changing it.
The guy is the world best advert for a budget built car that can be daily driven and still dial in the results!
Thats the car in question, and to put into perspective how quick it is, its faster up the quarter than Rod's so far!
Not bad on an engine that literally owed mick about 50 quid to build.
Absolute top bloke, really serious about his racing but totally into using the car on the road too.
He found the gearchange slow when using a T5 box so swapped to type 9 ones instead, now to most people that would be a stupid move as it means they are weaker, Micks answer to that problem, he gets a lift home and fetches a new box if he breaks one, and then runs again in the afternoon after changing it.
The guy is the world best advert for a budget built car that can be daily driven and still dial in the results!
31-01-2006 | 02:03 PM
#10
DEYTUKURJERBS
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 29,378
Likes: 1
From: North Korea
As its not on massive drag tyres im sure you couldve entered it and nobody wouldve noticed, the checks arnt exactly stringent.
So well done for bringing the fact its against the rules to the attention of the world
No inner arch mods rule is a good one, as the minute you allow it it fills with drag cars, its bad enough as is.
Its a shame this car breaks the rules and not for the reasons they intended, but its VERY rare a car has the inner arches modded for anything but drag stuff.
Cant really have 1 rule for one, one for another, cars should be made to the rules.
Look as MSA laws on whatever, rollcages etc, can do stuff just as safe and no bad effects, but if it dont comply to the rules, you not in, simple as.
So well done for bringing the fact its against the rules to the attention of the world
No inner arch mods rule is a good one, as the minute you allow it it fills with drag cars, its bad enough as is.
Its a shame this car breaks the rules and not for the reasons they intended, but its VERY rare a car has the inner arches modded for anything but drag stuff.
Cant really have 1 rule for one, one for another, cars should be made to the rules.
Look as MSA laws on whatever, rollcages etc, can do stuff just as safe and no bad effects, but if it dont comply to the rules, you not in, simple as.
31-01-2006 | 02:10 PM
#11
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 142
Likes: 1
Steve, i dont want to see Mick go all the way up there only to not be allowed to race, unlike all the cheating twats with blatant drag cars there i want to run our team fairly at least.
Car in question only runs on pump gas too, i dont see how anyone can call it a drag car wether it has tubbed arches or not, its 101% a road car and does the miles to prove it.
Do you have details of what the rules are, i couldnt find anything on the site.
Is it as simple as "no inner arch mods"
Surely that granada that ran last year must have non standard rear inner arches?
Would this rule out most of the cars running coilovers?
Clarity from someone please!
Car in question only runs on pump gas too, i dont see how anyone can call it a drag car wether it has tubbed arches or not, its 101% a road car and does the miles to prove it.
Do you have details of what the rules are, i couldnt find anything on the site.
Is it as simple as "no inner arch mods"
Surely that granada that ran last year must have non standard rear inner arches?
Would this rule out most of the cars running coilovers?
Clarity from someone please!
31-01-2006 | 02:23 PM
#12
Part of the Furniture
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Would this rule out most of the cars running coilovers?
Clarity from someone please!
I would say with that wording "no inner arch mods" it would ban cars that have been turreted... So would that mean a Gp4 Escort rally car is banned, they where tubbed and turreted by ford, the bodyshells being avaluble through the RS dealer network, so basicly its a standard car using ford parts, the turrets have a part number, so did the tubs in the tarmac cars.
Must admit, i'd hate to be the rule maker, its a minefield if you dont have classes. And even then it can throw up loads of "grey" areas.
Thats said, Good luck with getting the Viva passed, not that i'm biased towards older cars.
31-01-2006 | 02:38 PM
#13
Advanced PassionFord User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,371
Likes: 0
From: Fife/Dundee
i see nthis car on the men an mortors 0-60 challege pretty sweet car,
What are you meaning by tubbed???
So the rules are your not allowed you inner arches to be modified but that 4wd mk1 golf can have outer arches made up that sit about 6inches outwards???
MB.
What are you meaning by tubbed???
So the rules are your not allowed you inner arches to be modified but that 4wd mk1 golf can have outer arches made up that sit about 6inches outwards???
MB.
31-01-2006 | 02:43 PM
#15
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 142
Likes: 1
I would assume if its a 4wd mark one it probably has altered rear inner arches too TBH
Assuming the viva isnt allowed to run im certainly going to go round looking at all the other team cars and report ANY mods to arches as this rule has to apply to all cars not just the ones that arent pretty and trendy jap or vw motors, lol
Assuming the viva isnt allowed to run im certainly going to go round looking at all the other team cars and report ANY mods to arches as this rule has to apply to all cars not just the ones that arent pretty and trendy jap or vw motors, lol
31-01-2006 | 02:45 PM
#17
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 142
Likes: 1
Just a quick suggestion.
OBVIOUSLY no one wants the drag car brigade to turn up and run 8s at the event in cars that have nothing in common with the event ethos and dont handle.
So why not just impose a maximum tyre width rather than make sweeping statements about arches that end up also effecting lowered cars?
OBVIOUSLY no one wants the drag car brigade to turn up and run 8s at the event in cars that have nothing in common with the event ethos and dont handle.
So why not just impose a maximum tyre width rather than make sweeping statements about arches that end up also effecting lowered cars?
31-01-2006 | 02:55 PM
#18
Advanced PassionFord User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,371
Likes: 0
From: Fife/Dundee
ive never been to totb myslef but what sort of drag cars are we speaking of? ive seen a fewclips of a couple of supras that dont look like they can turn a corner never mind use the handling track but does it go to the extremes out the "drag cars" tuning up an just doin the top speed an "1/4 mile" an leaving the handling well alone?
Whats a ideal tyre width tho??? in your opinion obviously
MB.
Whats a ideal tyre width tho??? in your opinion obviously
MB.
31-01-2006 | 02:58 PM
#19
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 142
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by Mark B
ive never been to totb myslef but what sort of drag cars are we speaking of? ive seen a fewclips of a couple of supras that dont look like they can turn a corner never mind use the handling track but does it go to the extremes out the "drag cars" tuning up an just doin the top speed an "1/4 mile" an leaving the handling well alone?
Whats a ideal tyre width tho??? in your opinion obviously
MB.
Whats a ideal tyre width tho??? in your opinion obviously
MB.
I understand the rules need to keep cars not in the spirit of the event away, but i think its a shame if they end up also excluding cars that are totally in the spirit of the event.
31-01-2006 | 03:04 PM
#20
PassionFord Post Troll
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,058
Likes: 0
From: Wolverhampton
I think this highlights a point that Steve made aaaaages ago that TOTB was excellent event at the very beginning because people were doing it for the fun. But now these rules are really causing some issues and raising the 'cheating' element mentioned.
Shame really, it just can't be helped.
It's a shame the Viva might not be eligable to run too.
Call me stupid but surely if he returned the inner arches to standard but widened the track and fitted wide arches it would be within the rules wouldn't it?
Shame really, it just can't be helped.
It's a shame the Viva might not be eligable to run too.
Call me stupid but surely if he returned the inner arches to standard but widened the track and fitted wide arches it would be within the rules wouldn't it?
31-01-2006 | 03:21 PM
#21
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 142
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by MWF
I think this highlights a point that Steve made aaaaages ago that TOTB was excellent event at the very beginning because people were doing it for the fun. But now these rules are really causing some issues and raising the 'cheating' element mentioned.
Shame really, it just can't be helped.
It's a shame the Viva might not be eligable to run too.
Call me stupid but surely if he returned the inner arches to standard but widened the track and fitted wide arches it would be within the rules wouldn't it?
Shame really, it just can't be helped.
It's a shame the Viva might not be eligable to run too.
Call me stupid but surely if he returned the inner arches to standard but widened the track and fitted wide arches it would be within the rules wouldn't it?
But he hasnt built the car to run at TOTB, he has built it to use for 10,000 miles a year on the road, for which its perfect, oh the irony of it, LOL
I guess TOTB3 can give a definitive answer on what is or isnt allowed, but its going to be a REAL shame if a car that so perfectly fits the spirit of the event isnt allowed to run on a technicality
31-01-2006 | 03:28 PM
#22
PassionFord Post Troll
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,307
Likes: 0
From: Rushden, Northants
tire width isn't a limit if you know what your doing, A mustang in the states has recently ran 7.5's on drag radials(TOTB LEGAL), STOCK inner arches and stock design suspension 
the rules aren't very good anyway, you can chop, shorten and spend 150+grand on a car but you can't spend 50k and built a car right.
oh and a car thats safe 
the rules aren't very good anyway, you can chop, shorten and spend 150+grand on a car but you can't spend 50k and built a car right.
oh and a car thats safe
31-01-2006 | 03:41 PM
#23
PassionFord Post Whore!!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,463
Likes: 23
From: Manchestoh
That is the kinda car i would like to see at TOTB
Driven up with a pack lunch and woolworths tool kit in the boot.
Unfortunatly because of the slight archwork, and the chance of it damaging some big spenders ego's he will probably be at home on TOTB day watching Sunday Grandstand
Driven up with a pack lunch and woolworths tool kit in the boot.
Unfortunatly because of the slight archwork, and the chance of it damaging some big spenders ego's he will probably be at home on TOTB day watching Sunday Grandstand
31-01-2006 | 03:53 PM
#24
I'm Finding My Feet Here Now
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
i think the obvious answer is another class.
On another note, i've seen that car run a lot this year at the pod and its very fast! Although he does seem to have some transmission problems as you mentioned!
Engine is positioned waaay back through the bulkhead. Lovely looking car except for the bits of surface rust and something that isnt shown in that picture - the huge chunk of metal angle ground out of the bonnet for a cold air trumpet on his turbo.
He didnt even paint over the edges of the cut!
...maybe you could do a collection on the day for a session in the bodyshop!
Awesome car
On another note, i've seen that car run a lot this year at the pod and its very fast! Although he does seem to have some transmission problems as you mentioned!
Engine is positioned waaay back through the bulkhead. Lovely looking car except for the bits of surface rust and something that isnt shown in that picture - the huge chunk of metal angle ground out of the bonnet for a cold air trumpet on his turbo.
He didnt even paint over the edges of the cut!
...maybe you could do a collection on the day for a session in the bodyshop!
Awesome car
31-01-2006 | 03:55 PM
#25
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 142
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by demolition_man
i think the obvious answer is another class.
On another note, i've seen that car run a lot this year at the pod and its very fast! Although he does seem to have some transmission problems as you mentioned!
Engine is positioned waaay back through the bulkhead. Lovely looking car except for the bits of surface rust and something that isnt shown in that picture - the huge chunk of metal angle ground out of the bonnet for a cold air trumpet on his turbo.
He didnt even paint over the edges of the cut!
...maybe you could do a collection on the day for a session in the bodyshop!
Awesome car
On another note, i've seen that car run a lot this year at the pod and its very fast! Although he does seem to have some transmission problems as you mentioned!
Engine is positioned waaay back through the bulkhead. Lovely looking car except for the bits of surface rust and something that isnt shown in that picture - the huge chunk of metal angle ground out of the bonnet for a cold air trumpet on his turbo.
He didnt even paint over the edges of the cut!
...maybe you could do a collection on the day for a session in the bodyshop!
Awesome car
He had about 4 attempts at painting this one before he got the tatty look he was after, thats the ironic thing, its SUPPOSED to look like that, its mint underneath
31-01-2006 | 04:01 PM
#26
Advanced PassionFord User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 0
From: Carlisle, Cumbria
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Well it looks like a Matt Black shitter yes, although i think that if you looked underneath at how mint it is you would be surprised, LOL
Thats the car in question, and to put into perspective how quick it is, its faster up the quarter than Rod's so far!
Not bad on an engine that literally owed mick about 50 quid to build.
Absolute top bloke, really serious about his racing but totally into using the car on the road too.
He found the gearchange slow when using a T5 box so swapped to type 9 ones instead, now to most people that would be a stupid move as it means they are weaker, Micks answer to that problem, he gets a lift home and fetches a new box if he breaks one, and then runs again in the afternoon after changing it.
The guy is the world best advert for a budget built car that can be daily driven and still dial in the results!
Thats the car in question, and to put into perspective how quick it is, its faster up the quarter than Rod's so far!
Not bad on an engine that literally owed mick about 50 quid to build.
Absolute top bloke, really serious about his racing but totally into using the car on the road too.
He found the gearchange slow when using a T5 box so swapped to type 9 ones instead, now to most people that would be a stupid move as it means they are weaker, Micks answer to that problem, he gets a lift home and fetches a new box if he breaks one, and then runs again in the afternoon after changing it.
The guy is the world best advert for a budget built car that can be daily driven and still dial in the results!
Very quick Car that
31-01-2006 | 04:09 PM
#29
PassionFord Post Troll
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,058
Likes: 0
From: Wolverhampton
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by MWF
The irony in this post is boundless
Which bits specifically mate?
Can think of a few ironic things but not sure what you mean?
31-01-2006 | 04:10 PM
#30
Too many posts.. I need a life!!
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 854
Likes: 0
From: ...
Originally Posted by chip-3door
Originally Posted by smithy20vt
That mk1 is running shortened Audi Quattro running gear
31-01-2006 | 04:16 PM
#32
PassionFord Post Troll
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,058
Likes: 0
From: Wolverhampton
Originally Posted by chip-3door
I must be having a blonde hair day mate, still dont know what you mean 
examples?
examples?
Originally Posted by chip-3door
which ironically would make it more of a drag car
Originally Posted by chip-3door
10,000 miles a year on the road, for which its perfect, oh the irony of it, LOL
Originally Posted by chip-3door
thats the ironic thing, its SUPPOSED to look like that,
31-01-2006 | 04:40 PM
#35
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 142
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by smithy20vt
I mean that by running the longer driveshafts and having massively blistered arches that there is no need to touch the inner arches
Hardly in the spirit of the event though if they are banning you going inwards with the tyres to just go out instead
31-01-2006 | 05:08 PM
#37
Advanced PassionFord User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,376
Likes: 0
From: Beds
The micks in their black machines
Used to always race against these guys (only beat Rogers once )
Did you ever here the story from the event that pic u posted chip, Mick blow a turbo pipe to bits on a run, so just convieniently "found" a bit of drainpipe "hanging" arround and fitted that
Mick Rogers ONCE towed his car to an event and the transit he used conked out and he was seriously looking at how to tie the trailer to the Tina and tow the transit home
Both top guys and that the way they think and race
I never had a problem with racing them in "street Legal" classes, now SURELY that what TOTB STILL is aint it "STREET LEGAL"
I KNOW both these cars are USED on the road, much more than most cars, and as such have MOTs so surely they GOT to be allowed to run, I mean fuck me a couple years ago I remember certain Skylines being imported from Japan to run at the event
Oh and by the way Rogers Tina the cossie powered one that when i stopped racing was deep in the tens, never used to run even a wrc or even grp A head gasket quote " fuck paying that for a gasket I'll just buy 30 transit ones and carry spares "
Used to always race against these guys (only beat Rogers once
)Did you ever here the story from the event that pic u posted chip, Mick blow a turbo pipe to bits on a run, so just convieniently "found" a bit of drainpipe "hanging" arround and fitted that
Mick Rogers ONCE towed his car to an event and the transit he used conked out and he was seriously looking at how to tie the trailer to the Tina and tow the transit home
Both top guys and that the way they think and race
I never had a problem with racing them in "street Legal" classes, now SURELY that what TOTB STILL is aint it "STREET LEGAL"
I KNOW both these cars are USED on the road, much more than most cars, and as such have MOTs so surely they GOT to be allowed to run, I mean fuck me a couple years ago I remember certain Skylines being imported from Japan to run at the event
Oh and by the way Rogers Tina the cossie powered one that when i stopped racing was deep in the tens, never used to run even a wrc or even grp A head gasket quote " fuck paying that for a gasket I'll just buy 30 transit ones and carry spares "
